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College presidents seek drinking age debate
Current laws encourage binge drinking, they say, but MADD officials say change will bring more fatal car crashes.
Comment: Would this help curb binge drinking?
Tuesday, August 19, 2008
College presidents from about 100 of the nation's best-known universities are calling on lawmakers to consider lowering the drinking age from 21 to 18, saying current laws actually encourage dangerous binge drinking on campus.
The movement, called the Amethyst Initiative, began recruiting presidents more than a year ago to provoke national debate about the drinking age.
Besides Ohio State President Gordon Gee, two other Ohio college presidents have joined the group: Kenyon President S. Georgia Nugent and Columbus College of Art and Design President Dennison W. Griffith.
Mothers Against Drunk Driving says lowering the drinking age would lead to more fatal car crashes.
MADD officials are even urging parents to think carefully about the safety of colleges whose presidents have signed on.
"It's very clear the 21-year-old drinking age will not be enforced at those campuses," said Laura Dean-Mooney, national president of MADD.
Both sides agree alcohol abuse by college students is a huge problem.
Research has found more than 40 percent of college students reported at least one symptom of alcohol abuse or dependence. A recent Associated Press analysis of federal records found that 157 college-age people, ages 18 to 23, drank themselves to death from 1999 through 2005.
The statement the presidents have signed avoids calling explicitly for a younger drinking age. Rather, it seeks "an informed and dispassionate debate" over the issue.
Miami University did not choose to take part in the campaign, said Carole Johnson, internal communications coordinator for the school. However, the Oxford campus has seen several drinking-related deaths in recent years.
Student Beth Speidel died in 2007 at a railroad crossing. Police said Speidel was intoxicated when she wandered onto a crossing about 1:45 a.m. and apparently was struck by a train.
Hours before, she accompanied friends to an off-campus residence where alcohol was available, police said. Five of her friends were charged with helping her obtain alcohol.
In April 2005, three Miami University students died in an early-morning off-campus fire at a two-story brick student rental house in Oxford. The coroner ruled that all three — Stephen J. Smith, a senior marketing major from Bethesda, Md.; Kathryn Welling, a junior business major from Bronxville, N.Y.; and Julia Turnbull, a senior mass communication major from Milford, Ohio — were intoxicated.
Comments
By Flynnyrd
November 20, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this
I agree. Being 21 now, there is NOTHING that can stop me from visiting most establishments (as far as age goes). The thrill is here— when I have waaay more responsibilities than I did at 18. I don’t think that helps when you’re a fulltime student, father, and laborer. Also, for those as young as 17 who enlist and get a military ID, liquor stores are happy to let you buy all the booze you want. Isn’t there something wrong with that?
By Acai Berry Power
September 4, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this
Nice bog you have here. I pretty much lurk the internet when I’m bored and read all I can about the organic lifestyle, but I really liked you view on things. I’ll bookmark the site and subscribe to the feed!
By Shelly
September 2, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this
My son 22 who purchased his first home was arrested and cited for the Keg Law he had three people 20 & 19 at his new housewarming party. Four out of the five friends there are home owners. These young people have full time jobs, own their own homes, hunt, fish, vote farm but cannot have beer??
By david
August 24, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this
When I was 18 you could drink 3.2 % beer and 19 year old could drink 6 % and 21 year old hard liquor. It was set up almost as a gradual controlled stepping stone to where by the time I was 21 , I was done with the bar seen and moving on to bigger & better things in life and as I recall, there was no such thing as binge drinking back then. Maybe we should revisit that sensible legislation.
By Anthony
August 24, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this
We can vote at 18, we are considered an adult at 18, and some of us give our lives and join the military at 18… if we are old enough to fight for our damn country and die doin it than we are old enough to drink.
By Erasmus
August 24, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this
Americans think they are so progressive, but compared with Europeans, at least socially, we are extremely puritanical. You are a legal citizen at 18. You vote at 18. You drive at 16. You sign up for Selective Servie at 18. Maybe change the driving age instead. It is a conspiracy of MADD, the insurance industry, and the Right- Wing religious nuts that won’t allow us to change the laws. I doubt that there are any politicians with the cajones to actually propose this, especially in SW Ohio.
By Marian
August 23, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this
I’m not surprised college presidents would be in favor of this effort. If their students can legally drink, they needn’t hire public safety officials to catch underage drinkers and enforce consequences.
If I honestly thought that these young adults could responsibly drink in moderation to avoid negative consequences, I might support this effort. But I work with youth of all ages (including college students 18-20), and I can’t describe the majority of them as responsible.
By higasz
August 23, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
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By Hamilton High Student
August 23, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this
Age has nothing to do with binge drinking rather the maturity of the person drinking. If we lower the drinking age to 18 and require teens to have a parent or grandparent or someone with them, they are more likely learn moderation. There can also be a net clause that if they don’t have a parent or someone they can only order 2 beers that night at the bar.
By Ray
August 23, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this
The drinking age is only and sub-part of the real problem: Too much tax revenue precludes sound judgement of legislators; Whimps as judges and parole boards yields weak sentences for those who jeopardise their own life while possibly taking a innocent life by vehicular homicide…should be murder; SERIOUS penalties are needed to slow repeat affenders; Shelfish drinkers’ choices should not trump the legal rights of society in general.
By Ray
August 23, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this
The drinking age is only and sub-part of the real problem: Too much tax revenue precludes sound judgement of legislators; Whimps as judges and parole boards yields weak sentences for those who jeopardise their own life while possibly taking a innocent life by vehicular homicide…should murder; Shelfish drinkers’ rights do not trump the legal rights of society in general.
By me
August 23, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this
this is crazy!! i say don’t lower the drinking age to 18, of course!! i have a 14,12,6,& 4 year old, and i definitely wouldn’t want them drinking at 18, and especially walking to a store any time they want to buy them a beer!! college kids want this more than others! just because we can buy a house get a credit card, or lease a car when we’re 18 doesn’t meen that we can get in that car we just bought, and go to a bar, and leave drunk, wreck kill ourselves, or someone else, this is just crazy!!
By Jim
August 23, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this
All that is wrong with our society can be traced back to decisions that say that what we know to be wrong is actually right because we are tired of fighting with those who choose to violate the rules. If these colleges would provide severe consequences for being caught intoxicated, it might lessen the problem on their campuses. If they offered diversion, it might help, but that would seem educational. Stop enabling adolescent behaviors. Start teaching proper social behaviors.
By Len
August 23, 2008 3:00 AM | Link to this
If parents, like me, would just really make their children feel like we heard what they were saying then not jump all over them but REALLY try to hear them, things would be better. My kid is out of hand at this point but it’s with BMX, Motocross, girls, math, txt’s, yada, yada. 16, silly hair style, lanky, great at being a doofis….but we trust him. We talk to him. Maybe we are lucky but he listens because we listen. We do not like some of the things he says but we do our best.
By Len
August 23, 2008 2:45 AM | Link to this
I had my permit in Idaho at 14. I drove at 15 by myself. I went to Miami of Ohio, the G clause let us drink beer and wine at 18 and cocktails at 21. My PARENTS taught me several things. They said if I EVER felt I could not drive for any reason, not to. Call them NO MATTER WHAT. I never had to do that because they trusted me and I respected them enough to never let them down. The drinking age does not matter. Parents matter. I’m 40 now, no DUI’s, etc…
By Anthony
August 21, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this
If you tell kids not to do something they are gurenteed to do it anyway becouse it makes them feel rebeliouse, im 17 i drank before becouse iit was the cool thing to do and i did it becouse ur not suppose to, thtas how kids look at it, but i have older friends to that said that when they finally turned 21 and were able to drink publicly that it wasnt as fun and they dont even drink that much or none at all, so if it was lowerd to 18 im just guessing that it will be the same way.
By David
August 21, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this
I don’t understand why people look to the government to parent your kids. They are YOUR kids, If you don’t want them to drink then teach them your values and that you don’t think it is appropriate for them to drink untill they have turned 21. The problem is not that we don’t have enough restrictions. The problem is that we don’t have enough GOOD parents. Our “statistics” would be much better if we passed a law that required all mothers to be take a class on being a parent.
By Tony
August 21, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this
Ok if they really want to drink beer let 18yr be allowed to buy old dools and theres no harm in no one.:)
By Rachael
August 20, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this
I am 19 and i have been drinking for 4 years. I have been very fortunate because i have driven drunk ,because i couldn’t call my parents or someone else, and i have not killed anyone or myself. I’m not proud but it’s the truth. I soon gave up drinking and turned to rx drugs. They are easier to get and are just as good of a high. I am in favor of them lowering the drinking age to 18. By doing so it will be more “acceptable” and people won’t be ashamed and hide it at any cost including drunk drivn
By angie
August 20, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this
Recent debate regarding lowering the legal drinking age to 18 has been mostly full of reasoning that is illogical and not taking into account several medical, psychological and societal facts surrounding the issue.
The frontal cortex of the brain is the part which causes us to take a second look at what our first impulse is and to soberly question whether it is a good idea. This part of the brain is still immature in the teenage years. If a body part is still immature, it is a good bet that it will not function at the performance level that is expected of a mature adult. This means that quite simply, many kids sometimes truly cannot stop themselves from doing impulsive things. Why does it then seem logical to expect individuals of a group that is known to have difficulty in containing their impulses to make mature decisions about the amount of and behavior after the consumption of alcohol products? Because we will be expecting them to behave as though they are fully capable of understanding and obeying all the laws regarding this privilege, and will be held accountable to the law, right?
Suicide is the third leading cause of death among young people ages 15 to 24. Do you know what the first is??? Accidental death. This is a group of people that have a problem staying out of accidents….so let’s give them some Jack and Coke! Suicide is problem with teens because, referring to the previous paragraph, their brains are immature and the stress of life (you know, those cruel teachers in high school, the weekly he-said-she-said crises and the like) is often too much for them to bear. Many of these kids seek solace in alcohol as it is today, and do you know what happens? They wind up alcoholics or dead if something doesn’t happen to turn things around.
31 percent of teen drivers killed in 2006 had been drinking, according to NHTSA. Look, it’s hard enough being on the road with sober teens. Here is a stat the proves 1) even though kids know they aren’t supposed to drink and drive, they do it anyway and 2) their inexperience driving coupled with their inexperience drinking leads to death.
I can certainly understand that when a child is raised to view a certain thing in a certain way, the mystery is removed and the desire to binge is lessened. However, we in America do not drink wine with our dinners as part of our culture like the French. The vast majority of our kids see alcohol consumed by either an alcoholic in an excessive fashion or in a party “this is such a fun thing to do” fashion. When we grown up Americans stop treating alcohol like we might not ever get any again, then we can start teach our kids from way in the beginning how to act around it and then we can lower the drinking age.
Simply letting kids drink because they want to and because they sneak around doing it anyway is not a logical reason to change the law. We don’t decide to take murder off the books because people do that all the time. If that were logical, marijuana would have been legalized a long time ago because you and I both know half of America smokes pot. They can keep right on sneaking around, because at least that in itself serves to lessen the amount that they are able to do it. When the 16 year olds complain enough, which they do about everything anyway, are we going to change the law again?
The bottom line here people is that 18 year olds are still kids. They may be able to go off to Iraq but they are expertly supervised, trained to do what they are doing and too scared too mess it up. Kids who would be allowed to drink will not be under supervision, will not be trained by an expert on how to properly consume alcohol and are completely fearless. There are certainly some kids who can handle more mature responsibilities, but you cannot change the law based on those few kids.
Wake up people!
By Shelbitha
August 20, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this
All the lowered age has done is forced the drinking underground. That way, kids are forced to drink in/around their cars, and then to get home they drive drunk. That’s real smart. Go USA. If we were allowed to drink at home, then we wouldn’t have to hide it and we wouldn’t be afraid to call our parents for help. I will ALWAYS be glad my parents told me if I ever get drunk, I should call them and get a ride home. They’d rather I was drunk and safe at home than dead.
By Shelbitha
August 20, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this
Ok I AM a kid under the age of 21 and I HAVE had hard liquor. It was disgusting. But I didn’t stop drinking it. It was cool, it made me rebellious. If it were no big deal, I can honestly say that it wouldn’t matter as much. Just because I can buy cigarettes that doesn’t mean I will, and just because I can buy alcohol that doesn’t mean I will. I have the right to join the military, I have the right to drive, I have the right to vote. I’m responsible enough to handle those things but not drinking?
By Deb
August 20, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this
If someone is in the armed services they don’t have to wait till they are 21. Anyone in the services can drink whether they are 18 or whatever. So it’s not a case of if they are old enough to defend their country if they actually sign up they are allowed the privilege of drinking.
By Zaxl
August 20, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this
back to the original question: would lowering the age to 18 curb binge drinking? no. did Prohibition curb binge drinking? no. has anything ever curbed binge drinking? well, yes. Islam. but binge drinking is fun- that’s why it’s popular. it’s older than the bible, older than law, older than recorded history. but there will always be some arrogant fools who think they’re the most uniquely qualified people in the history of mankind to tackle an issue like this. good luck with that!
By Jeff
August 20, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this
Or find the kid in your dorm with a fake ID. I knew this kid who had a fake ID but no car, I had a car but no fake ID, we used to team up and go buy $150 worth of beer at a time for people in our dorms. We made 20 bucks each per trip easily sometimes. That money was the money we used to buy our own beer, thus drinking for free. Point is, they are going to do it anyways. And if not, like someone else said, they can go downtown and score pot, coke, acid, etc since those are all easier to get
By Jeff
August 20, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
Do any of you realize how easy it is for college kids to get beer? Why not just let them go out and buy it. I have been out of college for 3 years now and back when I was under 21 all you had to do was make friends with an upperclassman, then give him 10 bucks to buy you a couple cases. Go to a party, every school has their “party neighborhoods” and no one checked IDs at my school.
By Carla Anderkin
August 20, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this
Alcoholism is rampid in this country—why in the world would we want to make it easier for younger people to get their hands on it? Sounds like the makers of beer & hard liquor are in the back of this one.
The Bible says we should not put anything into our bodies that is harmful. Alcohol in moderation may not be harmful, but some people don’t know when to quit.
By Dick
August 20, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
Lower it to 18 for 3.2 beer only, like it used to be; 21 for liquor.
By neelyO
August 20, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
I’m seriously wondering who is behind this initiative to lower the drinking age. I’m willing to bet that if you follow the money trail it all goes back to the beer and alcohol distributors and manufacturers.
By neelyO
August 20, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
In England, you can buy beer at sixteen. Britain is having a terrible problem with both binge drinking and knife violence (like the U.S. has with drunk driving) among teenagers. Due to the lower drinking age, binge drinking commonly occurs among thirteen and fourteen year olds. Just last month, health ministers were calling for the price of alcohol to be raised to combat this problem. Others want to raise the drinking age to 21. Surprised?
By Cheers
August 20, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this
The government has no right to tell you what you can and cannot put in your body. Just keep it under the radar. It’s a much better lifestyle. Trust me.
By Chris
August 20, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this
The drinking age should be lowered to 18. But on certain days and certain times one can drink at 18. Or buy beer on certain days and at certain time. Don’t make beer available for teenagers 18 and up to buy beer almost 24/7. Maybe Monday thru Friday 6-8pm you can buy beer at 18+. Or if you were for the government which could be firefighter, state worker, volunteer, you should also be allowed to at least have a beer.
By LaRocca
August 20, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this
Why is this a headline topic? Reporting on Natl. news, China’s pro-active state level approach and belief of education and opportunities for their youth. Then imediately following this report, U.S. colledges addressing the drinking age. What an embarrassment.
By Chuck Jones
August 20, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this
Let’s keep it 21. I like my federal highway funds just the way they are, thank you. And while we’re at it, let’s return the age of majority to 21 as well. To be an adult at 18 is only a recent phenomenon.
By dumbhickohioians
August 20, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this
You stupid rednecks who think that your kid does not drink in college or even in high school are dumb. I think that it should be lowered for military members. Furnish your military I.D yes they have your birthdate on them get a beer at 18 it is that simple. MADD is out of control and if it were up to them prohibition would be reinstated lol. Look people the reason 18yr olds drink is because they feel like rebels, take away that feeling then you take away the thrill!
By Jon
August 20, 2008 8:43 AM | Link to this
Hey, while we’re at it…let’s legalize marijuana, cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine, and every other narcotic out there. If it’s not illegal, people will use it responsibly. Come on people…that logic (or lack of logic) is ridiculous. We have worked extremely hard to reduce alcohol related traffic deaths. lowering the drinking age will raise these deaths exponentially. There are still a great number of underage people who will not drink simply because it is illegal. Crack down!!
By Sharon
August 20, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this
There is no way the drinking age should be lowered. At Ohio State the students don’t need anymore chances to get drunk and destroy property. This is so DUMB.
By don
August 20, 2008 8:23 AM | Link to this
why not 18 you can die for your country my son brought a friend home Thanksgiving he was 19 they were leaving for iraq i give him a beer lock me up “get real” look at what you can buy on the streets
By ECP
August 20, 2008 7:25 AM | Link to this
Having grown up in a country where there is no legal drinking age, I am fully in favor of dropping the age to 18. If it isn’t a “big deal” to have a beer or two, then I think young people will see it as just one more thing to do…the intrigue or the rush of breaking the law will not be there.
By Bo
August 20, 2008 3:08 AM | Link to this
You can’t shelter your kids. It seems like “Generation School Shootings” might have some pent-up frustrations they need to let out. Crack a brew, blaze a fatty and chill-out kids. Life ain’t that bad.
By Denise
August 20, 2008 2:27 AM | Link to this
I fail to see the logic in saying that lowering the drinking age would put a stop to binge drinking. My daughter’s friends teased her because when she turned 21 she didn’t want to celebrate by going out to drink 21 shots at a bar. Her 21 year old college friends binge all the time to the point that large amounts of them miss classes because of the drinking. It’s legal for them and it hasn’t stopped the binge drinking why make it legal earlier and encourage even more problems.
By Denise
August 20, 2008 2:26 AM | Link to this
I fail to see the logic in saying that lowering the drinking age would put a stop to binge drinking. My daughter’s friends teased her because when she turned 21 she didn’t want to celebrate by going out to drink 21 shots at a bar. Her 21 year old college friends binge all the time to the point that large amounts of them miss classes because of the drinking. It’s legal for them and it hasn’t stopped the binge drinking why make it legal earlier and encourage even more problems.
By Chelsea
August 20, 2008 1:29 AM | Link to this
If an 18 year old can die for their country and can can also be tried as an adult in a court of law then they should have all of the responsibilities of an adult. We have the highest drinking age of any country. We also have one of the highest death rates due to alcohol consumption compared to other countries. If we make teens feel more comfortable and open about such subjects then we can teach them to do the responsible thing, such as call a parent to pick them up instead of driving drunk.
By Chelsea
August 20, 2008 1:27 AM | Link to this
If an 18 year old can die for their country and can can also be tried as an adult in a court of law then they should have all of the responsibilities of an adult. We have the highest drinking age of any country. We also have one of the highest death rates due to alcohol consumption compared to other countries. If we make teens feel more comfortable and open about such subjects then we can teach them to do the responsible thing, such as call a parent to pick them up instead of driving drunk.
By underage consumer
August 20, 2008 1:19 AM | Link to this
Furthermore, the youngest person to ever be executed was only 17 at the time of his execution. Hell maybe we should just start executing those who consume alcohol under the age of 21, that’d teach those sinners a lesson. Ha
By Gracie
August 20, 2008 1:16 AM | Link to this
Lower it to 18, bring back 3.2 beer. No one under the age of 21 should drink liquor. Lets face it, we all tried it at one time or another, or at least most of us did. I’m not condoning it, but, they are going to do it anyway.
By underage consumer
August 20, 2008 1:14 AM | Link to this
Since the death penalty has been reinstated in 1976 (after the drinking age had been raised to 21) twenty-two people have been executed for crimes that they had committed when they were under the age of 18, one of which was only 16 at the time he committed the crime. So according to the laws of this country a person is of sound enough mind at sixteen to make a decision that will lead to their execution, but not to make a choice about whether or not to have a drink.
By Republic Rebel Scum
August 20, 2008 1:06 AM | Link to this
Ok so how do you increase the Stupid things drunken college teenagers do. LOWER the drinking age. If the president of OSU should actually pull this off and get the age lowered then I can almost guarentee that the schools GPA will drop and there will be more drunken fights and acts of stupidity committed on that campus. I can almost assure that the rate of drunken sexual assults will increase.
By LeGaTTiS
August 20, 2008 12:19 AM | Link to this
(Overheard from a group of 16, 17, and 18 year olds) Hey man, it’s too hard to buy liquor….let’s go get some crack!
By Terry
August 19, 2008 11:38 PM | Link to this
I think it is ridiculous to expect people to “be adults” at 18…why not RAISE the age to drive, vote, smoke, military service to 21? I mean think about it…a car is more deadly than a GUN and how they vote effects the WHOLE country. If they are still a child when it comes to booze for Gods sake don’t give them MORE important things to do. Let them grow up.
And one more thing…responsibility comes from EDUCATION not LAWS. Laws are only there to punish you AFTER you’ve done something STUPID
By Wordell
August 19, 2008 11:29 PM | Link to this
God gave whiskey to the Irish so they wouldn’t rule the world. So far, so good. The Germans lost at Stalingrad due to being hammered on Jagermeister, also, “Oktoberfest” is celebrated in September…alcoholic confusion on a yearly/monthly scale. Lower the age to 18 for one year, then check your stats and death rates. Decide then if this planned/suggested debacle was worth it. Who will live? Who will die? Blow the deaths off as “collateral damage”. After all, we want to feel good, don’t we?
By BigJack
August 19, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this
I’m actually not sure to be offended or amused at those who snidely dismiss the fact that at 18 a person can be called upon to die for his country (males are required to register for selective service), can drop out of High School, consent to sex, leave home without being considered a runaway and be bound to signed contracts but somehow can’t handle a Long Island Iced Tea?
The irresponsible among us should be dealt with accordingly, but let’s just do away with this smug nanny-statism.
By Brittanie
August 19, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this
In my opinion I think its nuts that I can go to war and die at 18 but I can’t drink. I am also fed up with the mothers against drunk driving saying that it will raise the fatality rate, if we lower legal drinking age. If you raised your kids correctly in the beggining you wouldn’t have to worry about them drinking and driving. I am 19 and I ileagaly drink all the time and I never drink and drive. You need to worry about the under 18 people drinkin.
By Michelle
August 19, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this
I’m not sure what the logic is in trying to prevent binge drinking by lowering the drinking age. I don’t see how it’s going to make young people drink more responsibly. But there’s definitely some hypocrisy in the fact that people can vote and serve in the military at 18, but aren’t old enough to drink.
By Martha
August 19, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this
Yes, we can agree to disagree and also learn from each other. Awesome.
G’night.
By Martha
August 19, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this
The basis for my perspective: I was raised in a family where all the drinkers were “underground” - they didn’t go to bars and they hid their bottle or had a separate refrigerator for their beer. I grew up knowing that even social and societal prohibitions didn’t keep anyone from drinking. I think it’s better to do it legally and in essentially “the light of day.” These closet drinkers often seemed to drink more and in a scarier way than those who drank openly.
By TKidding
August 19, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this
Well we will have to agree to disagree but let me leave you with this thought. At one time in certain places of the world it was legal for a person to keep children as slaves. Since then we have evolved enough to create laws to protect children. I sure would hate for my kid to become a slave to alcohol because if you ever seen an alcoholic you would know what I mean. Science has proven the younger a kid starts drinking the more likely they will become an alcoholic.
By Martha
August 19, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
When I turned 18 in 1976, perhaps the world was a kinder and gentler place. But even though there will always be abusers, any time people do something they are going to do anyway in the “dark,” it isn’t the same as being allowed to do it in public. And I seriously think it would be unconstitutional to raise the drinking age above the current “implied” legal age of 21. As I have said, it isn’t going to stop anyone I’ve ever known.
By Jim
August 19, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this
Since we seem to want to debate the drinking age, maybe we should consider a higher number. Maybe 25 years old would be a better minimum age? Maybe we should return to 21 as the age of majority. We only changed that to accommodate the feelings that some people who were dying deserved to use alcohol as well as bullets. Now, there’s a logical combination. I think it is time to stop letting adolescents of all ages run the show.
By TKidding
August 19, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this
I can agree that with or without the law that kids are going to drink but to say it will lower binge drinking or drunk driving is just absurd. If you think they will do it in more adult supervised area well that can be even more scary then them going underground so to speak. The bottom line is that the only thing this will accomplish is to send the wrong message to kids.
By TKidding
August 19, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this
Just because we let them drink at an earlier age will not stop them from getting in trouble. If they drink and drive they will get in more trouble than just underage driving and by allowing them to drink earlier increases the chances of them making that mistake. Younger people will always take more chances than older people its just the way its is. When your young you think nothing can hurt you everybody knows that.
By TKidding
August 19, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this
Thats my point exactly Martha. Kids are to immature to learn from other peoples mistakes even there parents. How can you say that the younger they are able to drink the safer they will be? I have a hard time believing you are a parent without knowing that but hey I’ve seen people turn their 4 year olds on to drugs and alcohol its like I said before the only people I’ve seen that want younger kids drinking are the ones that want to exploit them.
By Martha
August 19, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this
Tkidding, I empathize with you. It is painful watching your kids do dumb things. But the current age limit doesn’t help - just makes legal problems for those unfortunate enough to get caught. Did you know one of the original MADD members quit it because she never wanted it to be a witch hunt for drinkers - by lowering the blood limits etc. She just wanted to get the bad drivers off the road, and they aren’t even the people who are at 1.0. Fanaticism has overruled logical thinking once again.
By TKidding
August 19, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this
The law of science is the faster you drive the harder it is to stop. Thus more accidents occur at higher rates of speed. Im sorry but if you trying to convince me that drinking at that age is going to lower binge drinking or people killed by under age drunk drivers you are wrong. I have drank enough to know that one drink your fine the next you can be blacked out and be in jail before you know what hit you. Been there done that and had no intention of getting that smashed.
By Martha
August 19, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this
Tkidding - I have kids, too. But they can’t learn from my mistakes any more than you or I could learn from our parents. I wish they could. But I would rather see them drinking legally in more controlled circumstances than sneaking around illegally. I am pretty sure they are going to do it. I come from a long line of drinkers and a shorter line of teetotalers. But I don’t want them to have the added risk of getting in trouble for something that is being done and is always going to be done.
By S. Vienna
August 19, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this
I have to agree that if they can vote and die for our country, then they should be able to drink. It is scary, but I do believe if it was available at that age, the drinking and driving rate would go down because they could drink at home. Parents face many issues, I think that allowing the drinking would solve problems with the statistics. MADD is a great organization, but really needs to face the facts, kids drink alcohol regardless of the law. Half the fun is knowing you can’t.
By Martha
August 19, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this
Analogy: Go to your local police department and complain that people are driving too fast on your 35 MPH street. A traffic study may be ordered. If it reveals people are actually traveling safely at 45 MPH, they will raise instead of lower the speed limit. Kids are already drinking at 18 or so. Not so long ago, drinking at 18 was legal in most states. The age limit was raised to enable states to receive federal tax dollars. It was all about money.
By TKidding
August 19, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this
My point is Martha is that I would rather not have my kid become one of those a statistics that get addicted or killed by alcohol. As far as me saying it was a gateway drug I didn’t. I have been down that road I smoked weed drank and did everything that I was told by my parents that would get me in trouble. Guess what? It did and I wasted allot of money doing it. Am I an addict? No but nothing good ever came from my actions. I would just like my kids to learn from my mistakes.
By Martha
August 19, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this
“Addictive substances.” This is that “gateway drug” argument - and as it is seldom what really happens to someone who just tries drinking, smoking or marijuana, kids realize that if only a few actually become deathly addicted, they feel like they have been lied to and misdirected and then they really rebel. I grew up with this ideology but there were so much conflicting information. But 18-year-olds are adults and they have to start making their own decisions in all directions.
By PB
August 19, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this
They can get the beer or whatever anyways at 18, they just have someone buy it for them. At college they get it regardless of their age. Just lower the age and yes my son has fought for our country and yes if they can strap 2 to 4 guns on them to protect us then yes they can enjoy a beer. They have deserved it by then. There are underage drinkers driving anyway so whats the difference it would just be legal for them to drink. Why not do something about the smoking, they can buy smokes at 18
By Martha
August 19, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this
Tjkidding, you did not fail. But the late teens are an age of experimentation and exploration. Even the Amish kids have their “rumspringa.” 21 is not a magic number. It’s true that most kids today are far from grown-up at that age, even. Kids in their late teens are better off drinking in controlled situations (at least some of the time) rather than in “illicit” and unsupervised circumstances. They are going to do it anyway.
By Martha
August 19, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this
Tjkidding, your figures may be right. But I don’t think that lowering the drinking age has anything to do with young drunk drivers. They are already obtaining alcohol and drinking to excess. I fail to see how it would create more drunk drivers. Once kids are out of high school, drinking is a rite of passage for many and they don’t wait till it’s legal just because they are under 21.
By TKidding
August 19, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this
I have tried to teach my kids that any time you try an addictive substance like alcohol you can become addicted and you can die from it. They tried it anyways. I never said NO you cant I always said you shouldn’t do I think they are bad kids for doing it? No but how responsible does that make them? I really don’t want anybody telling my kid that it is OK for them to take such risk at that age. Not even the goverment
By Bob
August 19, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this
I think if you have the right to go across the world and die in war, you should be allowed to drink a beer
By TKidding
August 19, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this
Martha the last time I checked more people die each year from alcohol realated accidents from under age drinkers than people who are murdered every year so your argument kinda loses its luster
By Tom
August 19, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this
I grew up in the 60’s. We could “die for our country” and also drink 3.2 beer. I feel this didn’t hurt our generation. It made me a more responsible person I think. People will go overboard at first because it is a new thing but, in the long run the kids will find out once you can obtain your preference of drinks it will be old hat and become the current practice. Drink, Protect Your Country, and Vote at 18 years of age.
By Martha
August 19, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this
Here’s another weird result of the current law, the constitutionality of which I would love to explore if I were a lawyer. If it’s found that an an over-21 person has provided alcohol to a person between 18 and 20 (or even if your kids have a party when you aren’t home) even though the drinkers are not minors, the over 21-parties are responsible. Responsible for the actions of adults, who should be responsible for themselves! Absurd.
By Truth is...
August 19, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this
Parents…A 15-17 year old is more likely to listen to their parents about alcohol. Parents still have authority in their homes hopefully. An 18yr old college bound student sees this as a getaway to drink and cut loose. If they are taught earlier about alcohol while allowed to have some with the “adults” it’ll take away the mystique and cut the binging down. Teach limits and watch how kids grow. Prohibit and watch how they retaliate. Simply the truth.
By Truth is...
August 19, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this
Parents…A 15-17 year old is more likely to listen to their parents about alcohol. Parents still have authority in their homes hopefully. An 18yr old college bound student sees this as a getaway to drink and cut loose. If they are taught earlier about alcohol while allowed to have some with the “adults” it’ll take away the mystique and cut the binging down. Teach limits.
By Truth is...
August 19, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this
Parents…A 15-17 year old is more likely to listen to their parents about alcohol. Parents still have authority in their homes hopefully. An 18yr old college bound student sees this as a getaway to drink and cut loose. If they are taught earlier about alcohol while allowed to have some with the “adults” it’ll take away the mystique and cut the binging down. Teach limits.
By Martha
August 19, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this
Tjkidding - you are comparing apples with elephants. Murder is not constantly flagrantly committed nor is it an accepted rite of passage.
Like Bob said, the law regarding purchase and use of alcohol under 21 is not stopping anyone who wants to drink. I don’t think there will be a rise in drinkers of that age if the age limit is reduced.
By Truth is...
August 19, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this
Dropping the age limit might move the “Binge Drinking” from underground. I believe as others that we put all of the duties and expectations on an 18 year old that are expected of a 21 year old except the ability to drink alcohol. We want that age group to vote, pay taxes, volunteer for military service, hold a job or go to school in order to be a contributing member of a community. But, you can not drink beer until you are “really grown up” at 21 years of age. Education is the key to prevention.
By TKidding
August 19, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this
Just because a law cant stop it from happening doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be a law. Thats like saying since murder is against the law but it doesn’t stop it from happening then it shouldn’t be against the law any more.
By Mark
August 19, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this
The United States are one of very few countries with a drinking age over 18. However, the U.S. has more alcohol-related deaths, per capita, than any other country in the world. Why? because the high drinking age actually encourages younger individuals to drink and feel like they are not giving in to the “system”. All privileges should be given to the individual at age 18. If one cannot handle those privileges, they can be revoked. The chance to handle this privilege should be given.
By me
August 19, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this
As far as I’m concerned, make it illegal for any age! Enjoy life without alcohol! Alcohol kills innocent people!!
By Tang wanted
August 19, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this
If it opens up a whole new age range (18-20) of drunk chicks at the bars I am all for it. Is this something that Obama is pushing/promising to get more votes? Sounds like something he would do.
By Martha
August 19, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this
Second reason the drinking age should be lowered to 18:
By TKidding
August 19, 2008 6:24 PM | Link to this
In my experience the only people that want to give younger kids alcohol are the ones that want to exploit them. I think they are exploited enough as one poster has pointed out with the short sighted belief that its ok for a kid to be in a porno or smoke or be killed in a war. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.
By Zaxl
August 19, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this
Other things (besides armed service) you can do when you’re 18: 1)buy cigarettes 2)appear in pornography 3)gamble
well, at least those aren’t as destructive as drinking. gotta keep the kids safe!
By ron
August 19, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this
Well I believe the drinking age should be lowered to 18. If society feels they are mature enough to vote, mature enouogh to go into teh service and fight for their country, then hell yes let them buy liquor. Some older persons I know aren’t mature enough to drink, so we can’t place that argument on the 18 year olds. Most of them know persons 21 or over who will buy it for them, and most parents know.
So let’s get it on the ballot and move forward.
By Jerry Jamieson
August 19, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this
They need to bring back 3.2 beer and allow the 18 year olds to drink. They find a way to get stronger beer and whiskey. If we allow them to have 3.2 they will be OK with that. I was.
By roger
August 19, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this
Only with a military I.D.
By TKidding
August 19, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this
Im glad to see people are ignorant enough to believe that if a parent teaches there kid right from wrong that the kid will listen to there parents. Wake up and smell the coffee I didn’t listen to everything my mom and dad said and my kids don’t listen to everything I have said. Life is a learning lesson it takes age and experience to master.
By TKidding
August 19, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this
I have read the posts about serving your country at that age so they should be able to drink at that age is just absurd. Thats like saying just because a kids body is ready to make babies as early as 10 years old in some cases that its ok for them to do. The point is that they aren’t ready to do either.
By momof3
August 19, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this
My parents grew up when the age of legal drinking was 18.They always told me that even though I wasn’t old enough to buy it if I did drink or if I was with friends who chose to drink that I should never drive or let them drive!I thank my parents for answering my phone calls at 3 am to come and pick us up from parties and never questioning me.It doesn’t matter how old you are, it matters how responsible you are. I hope my kids will call me at 3 am if they need a ride. Thanks MOM & DAD!
By phil
August 19, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this
heck yes,old enough to get your butt blown off for fossil fuel// old enough to quaff a brewskie.
By HMMMM
August 19, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this
I think it all starts with how parents raise their children. If we teach our children about alcohol and what kind of affects it could have on the body if misused or if we show them how to respect it. I believe in the ole saying of “the nut don’t fall to far from the tree.” If a parent misuses it so will the children. As far as lowering the age, well… it could have mixed outcomes. It all bases on how we teach our children.
By TKidding
August 19, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this
Anyone who thinks if they allow a kid to do something they wont want to do it has never been a parent. If they lower the age to 18 as soon as the kids reach 18 they will rush out to do it just because it makes them feel like a grown up. I do agree that the law has had little to no effect I could score alcohol by the time I was 13 but just because it doesn’t work doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to teach the kids right from wrong
By larry
August 19, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this
Do we really think any of these kids are waiting until 18 to drink. I know guys who drank in the 8th grade. The problem is the parents and society. It is accepted and the parents do it so the kids do it. I would better 80% of the people in Ohio had a drink before the age of 18.
By Alan
August 19, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this
Lowering the drinking age will lower the interest in drinking. Kids will be more likely to wait until out of high school. Drinking also doesnt look as exciting to most kids when your allowed to do it. Part of it is just that rebellious thought process. Look just about anywhere in Europe. What is the drinking age? 18. What is their death rate, DUI rate, etc. compared to ours. A heck of a lot lower. It just makes sense.