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OP local mobileCondo group files suit over 'therapy' dog
The dog was recommended to help resident's son, a 9/11 survivor.
Comment: Should Pickrum's dog be allowed to stay?
Thursday, June 28, 2007
The Deer Run Condominium Association filed a civil suit Tuesday against a resident because her son's dog is too big. The suit claims the animal is a threat.
However, Helen Pickrum said her son's dog, Jazzman, is therapeutic, not a threat. Marvin Pickrum, 39, who intends to buy his mother's condo, is a survivor of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. He was working for SMW Trading, a company focused on commodities options trading, and escaped from the World Trade Center's first tower. Helen Pickrum said her son helped others escape before it collapsed.
Extras
"I had a tough time after 9/11 and I didn't have a family of my own (living in New York)," Marvin Pickrum said. "Some of the counseling that I had while I was in New York, that was one of the recommendations (to get a dog)."
The Deer Run association filed the suit Tuesday in Butler County Common Pleas Court. Pickrum and her son have 28 days to respond to the complaint.
"Basically, our requirements as far as pets are concerned is a limit of 35 pounds," said condo association board member Christel Sainsbury. "But it is more than that. It has attacked another dog and has caused some injuries. That is basically our beef with that dog."
But Helen Pickrum said the fight, which happened nearly a month ago, occurred because the other dog instigated it. She said she accidentally left her condo door open and Jazzman got out.
"I had been talking with the neighbor. Jazzman got out and went toward her dog in a playful manor. Her dog, which is known to be very, very unfriendly, sort of went into a fighting mode, and Jazzman, of course, responded," said Helen Pickrum, who served on the condo association board for 17 years.
Rex Wolfgang, the condo association's attorney, said it is irrelevant as to which dog instigated the fight.
"It wasn't just an altercation," Wolfgang said. "The dog had mauled another dog."
Before the fight, the condo association sent a letter soon after her son moved in with Pickrum in March, stating the dog was not allowed because it was over the weight limit, despite not knowing exactly how much the dog weighed.
"You don't have to put it on a scale (to know it's over the limit)," Sainsbury said.
"I have a problem with the whole position that they took," said Marvin Pickrum, who intends to represent his mother and himself. "I understand the rule is in place for family reasons. The woman in this unit (behind his mother's condo) had two dogs that were over the weight limit. Apparently the board was different, but that's irrelevant in my view. Precedent has been set."
Lucy Davidson, who lives behind the Pickrums, said the association never took action with her two 100-plus pound dogs, which belonged to her daughter, Mary Louise Oliver, who has multiple sclerosis. Davidson said the only issue the board notified her about was not cleaning up after the dogs. But she supports her neighbors and has never seen Jazzman be unruly.
"I think it's terrible. We're not going to get rid of her," Davidson said. "If she's out running the streets, barking at everyone that would be a different story. To take her away form (Marvin) would be like taking a child away."
Once the Pickrums respond, a hearing will be set in Butler County Common Pleas Court.
Contact this reporter at (513) 755-5112 or mpitman@coxohio.com.
Comments
By Another Resident
July 2, 2007 9:44 PM | Link to this
If someone across the street called you a name do you have the right to go across the street & beat that person to a pulp? NO! Any dog not on a leash & causes harm to a person or another animal is agressive even if it’s a 15 lb dog. Jazzman a german shepard did a lot more damage. Helen & Marvin went puplic for sympathy but that won’t win in court. The attorney has pictures (proof)of the injury to the schnauzer & the vet bills. That’s how he knows it was mauled.
By Another Resident
July 2, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this
No one said Jazzman was a savage dog The Schnauzer is a yappy dog & always on a leash. Jazzman proved he is aggressive by the fact he went over and attacked another dog. The schnauzer was no threat to Jazzman. Fact is there is a LAW all dogs must be on a leash. The Schnauzer was mauled & Marvin paid the first medical bill thus admitting his responsibility. If you knew anything about the law you’d know it’s an open & shut case.
By resident
July 2, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this
The dog Marvin Picktrum has is not a savage dog as some poeple have said. Jazzman is a very lovable and friendly dog. The dog that instigated the altercation is a Snouzer that is a very savage dog.We have had children in our association try to pet the dog, as any child will but the owner yells and tells the to stay back.I think this dog is more of a hazard to our area then any dog living here. How does Mr. Wolfgang know was MAULED if he was no there.
By sherry
July 2, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this
the man should be allowed to keep his dog the man went thru one of the most terrible things ever put yourself in his shoes think if you can how that would have affected you all theses do gooders need to back off and leave him be we should thank god he survived instead of trying to take something from him that gives him peace i pray for all of you cause god dont like ugly leave him alone with his dog he deserves it
By sherry
July 2, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this
the man should be allowed to keep his dog the man went thru one of the most terrible things ever put yourself in his shoes think if you can how that would have affected you all theses do gooders need to back off and leave him be we should thank god he survived instead of trying to take something from him that gives him peace i pray for all of you cause god dont like ugly leave him alone with his dog he deserves it
By sherry
July 2, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this
the man should be allowed to keep his dog the man went thru one of the most terrible things ever put yourself in his shoes think if you can how that would have affected you all theses do gooders need to back off and leave him be we should thank god he survived instead of trying to take something from him that gives him peace i pray for all of you cause god dont like ugly leave him alone with his dog he deserves it
By Matthew Ridgeway
July 2, 2007 1:55 AM | Link to this
There should be a condo consensus on dogs in the buildings. Dogs in appartments and condos are not healthy in my opinion. The problems of barking and animal waste in such tight confines is concerning. The health and safety and of course consideration of comfort and enjoyment of ALL residents should always take a priority over a dog and its bad behaviour by barking, snarling or bahaving in a threatening manner. Community peace and safety should always be the priority. www.barkactiongroup.org
By juan
July 1, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this
cruel to have a large dog in a condo….. Move out or get rid of the dog.
By Condo Resident
June 29, 2007 11:24 PM | Link to this
The dog is NOT a service dog and will NEVER be certified due to its aggression. It ran across a parking lot and attacked a dog that WAS on a leash. It was suggested Marvin get a pet now almost 6 years later he wants to live in a community with rules. He’s been there less than 3 months. The Associations need to crack down on the large dogs and people need to be responsible with pets. It’s inhumane to have large pets in tiny condos & no place to run. If you can’t live by the rules get OUT
By Tammy
June 29, 2007 7:24 PM | Link to this
Actually, a service animal does NOT have to have visible ID on them. The disabled person carries a card stating that the animal is a service animal. The animal then can go where ever the disabled person goes. Did you know that a service animal can’t be disallowed from going into an operating room if the disabled person wishes him/her to be there while they have surgery? Myself,I think he should be able to keep the dog, regardless. But they both knew of the weight limitations before he moved in.
By Condo Resident
June 29, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this
Ditto only dogs under 35lbs allowed Large dogs don’t belong in condos PERIOD! You can’t get a dog from most pounds unless you have a fenced yard. Why would an animal lover subject a large dog to such a small space? The large dogs have never been allowed. The Associations don’t know who has the dogs, they have to be reported with the unit #’s and that isn’t being done. Helen was on the board for 17 years. She knows the rules. Your fellow neighbors are paying for this law suit with monthly dues
By Resident in other Condo Community
June 29, 2007 12:01 AM | Link to this
I have a small looking dog but he actually ways almost 35 lbs. The association rules are 40 pound limit here, where I live. But I have also seen some extremely big dogs. I asked a HOA rep why they were allowed. They were “grandfathered in”. Same issue may apply. Seems like “grandfathered in” owners can do whatever the heck they want(such as renting out their unit). My dog would have done the exact same thing. I think they should be able to keep the dog if they are now cleaning up after it, now.
By TBP
June 28, 2007 10:34 PM | Link to this
Missing facts:
Were both dogs off leash? Shame on both parties.
What is “mauled”? was the dog rushed to the emergency vet. Did offending dogs owner offer to pay vet bill? I feel mauled when my dogs licks me all over. Come on common sense… dogs will be dogs and usually smaller dogs are much more aggressive than large ones! and what about those 100 pound neighbors? I think condos should put weight limits on residents then maybe these fat heads would get a clue.
By belbeth
June 28, 2007 10:27 PM | Link to this
If the dog is certified (which unfortunately it probably is not) then there would be no arguement. If a dog is to a service/working dog, your best bet is to have it certified as such preferably through a recognized national or local training group. These dogs should always have identificaion visible to the public to id them as working dogs. The Americans with Disabilities Act would cover this situation.
By Tammy
June 28, 2007 8:29 PM | Link to this
If Jazzman is a certified service dog. There’s nothing the association can do. A service dog isn’t considered a “pet”, it is classified as medical equipment. They can’t MAKE him get rid of him. No different than banning someone’s oxygen or saying they can’t have a hospital bed in their condo. They CAN make it very difficult for them to live there with a lot of restrictions. Now, if Jazzman isn’t a CERTIFIED SERVICE DOG, then Helen and Marvin Pickrum are going to run into a problem.
By Resident
June 28, 2007 7:32 PM | Link to this
I think the dog should say,I have never seem him or her out loose alway out with the owner.
By kathy
June 28, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this
it is not fair that the association is playing favorites. if the association allowed 2 100 pound dogs to live there, then jazzman should be able to, also. i have 3 dogs, one a 100 pound dog, part shephard/lab mix, a 30 pound dog and a 6 pound dog. the two smaller ones are the ones that i would be afraid of if is was a stranger trying to hurt me or take food away from them. never the big dog.
By kathy
June 28, 2007 6:45 PM | Link to this
i would like to email and phone this group and tell them how unfair they are to try to remove the german shepard that mr pickrum owns. this organization is being blatantly prejudiced toward mr pickum and jazzman. as to the other dog being attacked. your story states that the other dog is the aggressor in this situation. if jazzman is removed that dog needs to be removed, also. the other dog is a threat to other dogs and even people in the neighborhood.
By sandy
June 28, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this
hi the issue seems to be is people intend to have a problem with people with disabities and their ‘therapy” dogs.i have dogs that weight 35 to 50 pounds but i lived in the country where they can run and be happy.and sometimes they help me with certain things i cant do. however i do agree in maintainning control over a dog for safely issues. in my mind i thik the dog should stay
By angelique
June 28, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this
So far only ONE negative remark about this survivor and his dog. Wholeheartedly the dog should be allowed to stay. Unfortunately, the asinine condo association will look for any and everything they can to pick, pick, pick at the dog, so they will have to really keep close tabs on the dog. As for me, I wouldn’t even bother buying the condo with small-minded, inept individuals there seems to be on the board. Been there and done that with a condo and its a*s. Fight to keep your baby,and God Bless.
By kms
June 28, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this
There is no doubt the dog should be allowed to stay due to the precedence that has been set by the association. Also, therapy dogs, such as a leader of the blind, are permitted when all others are not (i.e. grocery store, buses, etc..). This is a perfect example and extension of the allowance for such an animal. Many of these animals will also defend its owner from anything it feels to be a threat.
By doug,bowling,franklin,ohio
June 28, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this
god,helpthem,all,godblessyou,all
By doug,bowling,franklin,ohio
June 28, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this
god,helpthem,all,godblessyou,all
By doug,bowling,franklin,ohio
June 28, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this
god,helpthem,all,godblessyou,all
By Joe Pfaffl
June 28, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this
Perhaps the Dog should stay and Christel Sainsbury and the rest of the Jackasss, on the Condo Board should leave! Mans best friend is a dog, not a bunch of Busy Dizzies !
By Cat Wilke
June 28, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this
Totally agree the dog should stay —- people need to get a life and also cultivate some compassion for those who suffer PTSD from 9/11. Sounds like discrimination and should fall under ADA — God Bless the Pickrums!!!
By Cat Wilke
June 28, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this
Totally agree that the dog should stay —get a life people and cultivate some compassion for those who suffer PTSD from 9/11. This sounds like discrimination and should fall under ADA—God bless you both!!
By Mel
June 28, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this
The point of the issue isn’t being missed, they allowed two 100 lbs. dog for another neighbor, in doing so they violated their own rules and set them aside even being a very good reason for it, same here, man was traumatized, the dog is therapy. As for it defending itself it has every right to, it doesn’t matter to a dog wether it’s a large dog or small one that’s attacking it’s going to defend itself. Just because a dog is large does not mean it is aggressive, lg. or small it’s the training.
By Diana
June 28, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this
If they allowed someone else to have a big over the 35lb. limit before then he should be allowed to keep his dog. Let’s hope justice is on his side. If it is a rule than inforce it, but don’t make exceptions for one and not another. Good luck with this and God bless you for being in 911! I hope the dog owner that her dog started all of this comes forward and defends his dog. Any dog will fight if threatened no matter how much it weighs! Come on Deer Run have a heart! This man needs his dog!!
By Susan
June 28, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this
Whatever happened to compassion for other human beings? The people making an issue of this need to add some meaningful activities to their lives. They are obviously very self-focused and don’t have enough productive things to do. If any of them had experienced being in those towers when they collapsed, I would imagine that their perspective on this situation would be quite different.
By hubert jackson
June 28, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this
i feel the dog should stay. and the neighbors should mind their own. they allowed another to have 2 over a 100 pounds. i do beleive the other dog was the troble maker. if that dogs owner has a problem, well tough crap, should have tought it better manners. i bet they would change their minds if it was on other foot. these people are to be very happy they are not my neighbor. leave the man and his dog alone and stay the hell away from them.
By Norma
June 28, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this
I think the dog should be allowed to stay since the other neighbor with 2 dogs over 100 lbs each doesn’t have to get rid of her dogs. Plus it sounds like the only reason someone got upset was because the dog defended itself. If I had a dog and it was attacked by another dog, I would totally expect it to defend itself—any dog owner should be prepared for that. And, yes, I’ve owned dogs before.
By Levi Wiget
June 28, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this
The whole point of the issue is being missed. The rule only dogs under 35lbs allowed. Even though they may think of this as a child, they moved it in knowing the rules. The dog should have to go.