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Home > Blogs > Springfield Schools News and Issues > Archives > 2008 > November > 11 > Entry
Did sparing the rod spoil the schools?
At the close of last night’s Coalition for Justice and Equality meeting, Elder Garfield Parker made a comment on one of the concerns raised by the survey they had conducted: discipline.
“How are they supposed to bring discipline back to the schools without corporal punishment?” he asked after an apologetic and hesitant start to the question.
He told the story of one of his math teachers who “tore up (his) behind” and after that he was a straight A student in the subject.
Schools have an array of discipline options now: in-school suspension, out-of-school suspension, detention, expulsion, suspending a teen’s driver’s license, suspending a student from extracurricular activities, etc.
Under Ohio law, schools are still allowed to use paddling as a form of punishment.
Yes, corporal punishment is still legal in Ohio, although most schools have a policy that does not allow it to be used. A bill was introduced last year to ban paddling but it hasn’t been acted on since May when it was in a community.
Actually it’s still legal in several states and more than 200,000 kids were paddled in school last year.
This isn’t the first time I’ve heard this question, particularly from the generation that want to schools when paddling was a popular form of punishment. I’ve heard from some older family members, co-workers and friends that it was an effective method for them.
I am not part of that generation, but I remember that my first grade teacher had a frilly paddle hanging in the classroom.
I’ve heard educators lament discipline problems that stem from the home where rules are not enforced and then those issues carry over into the schools and question how to enforce rules without the support of parents.
Should schools use corporal punishment? What alternatives do you think would help with discipline?
Permalink | Comments (26) | Post your comment | Categories: Discipline
Comments
By ohio buckeye
November 12, 2008 7:23 AM | Link to this
By all means yes, a good paddleing never really hurt any one of us. Its time to get back to the basics of education.By ohio buckeye
November 12, 2008 7:39 AM | Link to this
The founding fathers of springfield, and most of the businessmen of springfield attended local highschools that had ( one principal) one coach, who also taught history . some students walked to school, and had to carry their lunch. IT IS TIME TO GET BACK TO BASICS…By Sapphire Fae
November 12, 2008 8:31 AM | Link to this
Yes! Discipline is important and the tactics used today doesn’t work.By don
November 12, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this
Corporal punishment to me was going to jail, a paddleing is discipline. My children knew if I recieved a call from school be prepared when they got home. This was the same way my parents handled me and my sisters. If I needed it at school the principal would contact my parents and they had a choice he would do it or they could at school, otherwise you were out of school until the situation was taken care of.By kjm762
November 12, 2008 8:40 AM | Link to this
Oh, but we might hurt little Johnny’s self esteem! BS! We need to hurt little Johnny’s behind! Classes being disrupted because of discipline issues cost our kids a hugh amount of learning time. All of the ADD, ADHD, and whatever else were not an issue when I went to school. We were more afraid of CP than anything.By LizardKingLives
November 12, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this
First, before corporal punishment should be used on the students, you should first take the parents & school administrators in the principal’s office for a little corporal punishment.As a former teacher in the SCS district I found my hands tied to discipline a student for any reason.First the parents would call or come to the school ranting that thier perfect child is being singled out…not actually your perfect child was the instigator.This would cause the administration to step in and do nothing so that they could just get that parent out and not have to hear their ignorant arguements.When you would send a student to the office because they are just to much a disturbance the office just has them sit there until their next class and then lets them go, with no punishment at all or little to none.Bottomline is that as a teacher you have no where to turn if you have a unruly student and just hope that they are all in one class so the rest of the day you can actually teach the students something without have to spend 1/2 your time trying to manage the unruly students. The truth is that the majority of these unruly students will end up on some sort of state assistance because they & THEIR parents refused to help themselves become educated or even worse end up a constant repeat offender in the criminal justice system.By Gene
November 12, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this
paddleing?? It drips with irony that the word used by some in this post is not spelled correctly. Wow.By W!
November 12, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this
Yea! May I suggest WATER BOARDING!!!!!!!!!!!By stan
November 12, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
The administration at these schools follow a long, slow process for discipline when quick, significant action is called for. Many students don’t make the connection that they are being punished today for something the did 2 weeks ago. The administration (and I don’t mean principals)in SCS has for the longest times tried to appease parents because of a fear of losing students from the district and of a fear of losing votes for any levy. Perhaps if the trouble makers were dealt with in a proper manner and they left the district, we might gain 2 students because the schools then become an environment of learning instead of constant petty disruptions. Watch the pennies and the dollars take care of themselves.. take the small issues (tardiness, unprepaired for class) and the bigger issues may not appear.By Concerned
November 12, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
It takes time to understand that corporal punishment in the schools is not appropriate. The research shows that such punishment is not effective and is harmful. There are much better ways to disciplin children but it takes time to learn. This is a difficult topic since it is laden with values and tradition. Learning other discipline methods can only help school systems but people must be willing to set aside their personal beliefs for a few moments to at least consider other options.By Clark Co Resident
November 12, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
Public schools wouldn’t have to worry about disciplining students as often if parents were more conscientious about teaching their children right from wrong and have high expectations for behavior at school.By Go BUCKS
November 12, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
As a former police officer here in Springfield, I don’t remember the disreguard for the law and disrespect towards staff that I see today. Having grown up in and being a product of the SCS, I’ve seen first hand taht students were more well behavied when the threat of a good paddling was hanging over our heads. If our teachers must babysit, they should be permitted correct the students in a manner that gets that childs attention.By LizardKingLives
November 12, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
Concerned…I agree with your other means of disciplin, however you’re also very niave about this.It is that kind of attitude that has caused much of the disciplin problems.The values you mention start at home, but kids do not get them at home anymore and we have tied the hands of the schools in how they can handle disciplin.There are many who respond in a positive way to corporal punishment (look at the posts).Also show me the research (it must be credible) that says corporal punishment harms a child…the research actually states that the “abuse” of corporal punishment can harm a child.There is no one way that is effective for everyone and that is why we need every means possible at our disposal.By nadine block
November 12, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this
Paddling still goes on in Ohio. Over 300 paddlings were administered in Ohio schools in 2007-08 according to confirmed numbers from the Ohio Department of Education. Corporal punishment DOES hurt children - some need medical attention for injuries. School districts are often sued for paddling injuries. There is much evidence that it is harmful and no evidence that it works in the long term. States with high corporal punishment rates also have the highest percentage of their adult population incarcerated and more school shootings occur in paddling states. Research information is available on Stophitting.org. On that site there is a proclamation against school paddling signed by 48 Ohio organizations. HB 406 would ban it completely. Please support the bill. It’s time. States that spare the rod have higher school achievement, less school violence and better graduation rates. Sparing the rod works better.By LizardKingLives
November 12, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
The website you note does provide some great statistics, often they manipulate to support the ideology of the website though. Your statement, “States with high corporal punishment rates also have the highest percentage of their adult population incarcerated and more school shootings occur in paddling states” is not entirely the truth. For example, the districts where about half the school shootings in the past 10 yrs did have no corporal punishment policies, the state is what did not have any legislation banning it.Also the states that still have corporal punishment allowable are also low income/high welfare states which traditionally high crime statistics when compared to other more affluent areas.Here is the facts statistics can be manipulated anyway a person wishes, I just did it with the statistics from the website.In addition I did not see any statistics which supported the use of other means of disciplin as being effective.The website also only provides you with a small aspect as to what the research actually says by taking what works for them from the research and leaving the statistics that do not support their ideology.The truth is CP is not the answer for every child but it is effective in some, just as alternative punishment works for some and not others.By LizardKingLives
November 12, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
Also, less 1/2 a percent of students had corporal punishment used as a means of disciplin. The top 10 states that use CP are southern states…and you failed to mention that 40% of all the corporal punishment is done in just 2 states.How do you get credible statistics on effectiveness of CP when CP occurs in less than 1/2 of 1% of the time currently.Please in the future be responsible with your use of statistics and I realize that CP is used so rarely it is ridiculus to not permit it in those cases where other means just failed to work.By lsw
November 13, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this
My children attend Northridge and there have been no paddlings there in quite some time, only a few I can remember others receiving when I was a student there 20 odd years ago. My children are well behaved as are most in their classes, my children are taught to respect adults, follow rules and respect themselves. They also know trouble at school results in trouble at home. This seems to work with my children, and countless others. How about more effective education about how to be an effective parent to those that don’t have that knowledge. This should translate to school behaviors and successes. By the way, in my 10 years of parenting, I can count on one hand the times I have physically disciplined my children and they were all when they were small and would have their hands slapped for repeated behaviors or doing things that were a danger to themselves or others. Mine have so far turned out just fine, and they don’t come with manuals so I am just doing my best. I don’t want my children to behave out of fear, but out of love and respect for their father and I and themselves.By lsw
November 13, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
Also, being a social worker in the city schools, I see many kids who misbehave and are so used to being physically disciplined at home; they would be completely immune to paddling as punishment. Many of their parents do far worse to them on a daily basis. Their parents paddling them certainly hasn’t worked, why do you think it would at school?By LizardKingLives
November 13, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this
Why it would work because of the shock value to the student because they think it can not happen and they definitely dont think it will happen at school.I think those that support CP are saying they are against eliminating it as an option for educators.It definitely should not be used all the time, but for those repeat offenders that have failed to react to other means of disciplin.To remove it as an option is saying that the other means are a fix all solution when the truth is they are not.You then have the problem of what to do when the fix all fails to fix the problem…much like we have in the SCS district (the county schools are not much different) today…disciplin is non existant.If you are going to make it more difficult to disciplin in school then more drastic disciplin alternatives should be available such as expulsion and CP.By Blake Hutchison - Logan County, Ohio
November 13, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this
My mom did not believe in spanking. I did not turn into a murderer or rapist. I know this is damning to the pro-spanking propagandists who would like to have everybody think that anybody who is not spanked is doomed to be criminals. To be honest, I have to look at the fact that I was bullied by a lot of kids, mostly because I was really geeky-looking as a kid. All of those kids who bullied me were spanked by their parents. I just can’t bring myself to support spanking, and it WILL be out of Ohio schools, even if not this time. In fact, keeping the paddle in schools is one of many reasons I am relocating to California within two years, where it is banned. I refuse to raise my future children in a state which still refuses to put away the paddle.By Pro-Spanker
November 13, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this
Anybody who opposes spanking should be EXECUTED…By Spanky
November 14, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this
Blake & all other “anti-spanking” fanatics…your special and I do not mean it in a positive manner. No one said that those who are not spanked grow up to be murders or even criminals. What is being said by the “pro-spankers” is that we do not think this option of disciplin should be eliminated as a choice. For thousands of years parents spanked thier children and it seemed as though crime was much lower, less drug abuse, less sex, less violence etc etc. Now our society is filled with gangs, drugs, sex, violence, and it seems as though everywhere you turn you find those who are opposed to disciplining those who seem to violate the rules or laws. I say it is BS and that maybe it is our fear of disciplining our children with a wack on the bottom that may be moving our society in the violent direction it is moving. I am not saying you beat on a kid (just the opposite), but if the offense justifies a spanking then why not provide the right punishment. We are talking about a spanking the child, not water boarding the kid.By Blake Hutchison - Logan County, Ohio
November 21, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this
Spanky, thank you for calling me a “fanatic”. Because when you resort to calling people names simply because they disagree with your opinion, you help prove their point that spanking is counter-productive and raises people who resort to bullying and name-calling whenever someone doesn’t get their opinion. So, please, continue on generalizing us as fanatics. You are playing into our hands. We’re not after you. We’re after the people who will see you for what you truly are if the best thing you can resort to is name-calling. Have a nice day.By Spanky
November 21, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this
Blake I find it difficult to believe that CP actually played any part of UR decision to move to CA. By the way no one is name calling, unfortunately I do not have time to write out every single anti-CP person’s name, so yes sometimes you have to generalize.And someone who apparently used a form of punishment that is used so infrequently that your child is 5 more times likely to be physically assaulted by one of their peers at school than they are to be punished using CP, as their reasoning and motivation to move across the country-sorry I would consider that to a fanatic.Nothing against CA I use to live there and loved it,but a place that has such a hig violent and gang violence rate (in GENERAL) is a great example of why we should not be implementing CP (not).By Blake
May 15, 2009 12:57 AM | Link to this
You called me a fanatic - that is “name-calling.”By Blake
May 15, 2009 12:59 AM | Link to this
By the way, if you are referring to gang violence in California, that cannot necessarily be directly attributed to lack of corporal punishment. If you do that then you also have to acknowledge the fact that there was more “organized crime” in the 1930s than there is today…back when 49 states still allowed corporal punishment…good luck getting out of that one.