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Ellen Belcher is the Dayton Daily News opinion pages editor. She writes about state government, education, the environment, higher education and all things Dayton.
Martin Gottlieb is an editorial writer and columnist for the Dayton Daily News opinion pages. He focuses on the political process itself and does such national issues as war, the economy, taxes and Social Security, as well as a hodge-podge of local and state issues.
Scott Elliott is an editorial writer and columnist for the Dayton Daily News opinion pages. He writes about education, city and suburban issues, politics, business, workforce and consumer issues.Home > Blogs > A Matter of Opinion > Archives > 2010 > November > 11 > Entry
Editorial: Kasich needs to tell schools what’s coming
When President Barack Obama was campaigning in 2008, his positions on education were among the hardest to discern and people who were sure they knew what the would-be president thought turned out to be wrong. He, for instance, has been a proponent of charter schools and merit pay for teachers.
Educators are hoping Gov.-elect John Kasich proves to be similarly misunderstood because the worst-case scenarios for how he might approach school policy are not pretty.
Mr. Kasich hasn’t detailed his education views except to say that he wants to junk Gov. Ted Strickland’s plans, which are expensive and, in many cases, unfunded. By ruling out any tax increases, Mr. Kasich also is guaranteeing deep cuts in state aid to schools. This is not a specific promise; it’s just the reality considering the budget shortfall he’s looking at.
At least at this point, what seems to distinguish Gov. Strickland and Gov.-elect Kasich is that Gov. Strickland believes the state should be putting up more money for schools and standardizing how they’ll operate. Mr. Kasich, on the other hand, apparently doesn’t believe districts are all that beleaguered, and he apparently thinks local authorities should be saddled with deciding — or be allowed to decide — how to get along with less money.
Yet another wrinkle to the coming cuts is that Gov. Strickland suggested this week that Ohio could lose $400 million in federal Race to the Top money if Mr. Kasich backs away from Ohio’s current education plans. Of course, Gov. Strickland is going to say that, but his prediction isn’t likely to happen. Some of the things that Ohio committed to doing — using test data as an element in teacher evaluation, for example — are policies Mr. Kasich will likely support.
Moreover, unless Gov. Kasich does something extreme, President Obama is not going to invite the charge that he is punishing Ohio for electing a Republican.
One thing to watch, though, is how the coming cuts are applied and whether poor school districts end up bearing a disproportionate share of that burden. (School districts with a large proportion of poor children get more state funding than those that don’t have as much poverty in their communities.)
Education spending at the elementary and secondary levels accounts for about 40 percent of the state’s $50-plus billion budget. In plugging an estimated $8 billion deficit, cutting schools will be in some ways easier than cutting Medicaid (an entitlement) or prisons, which are two other high-cost items. School officials have been planning for at least a 10 percent cut in state aid next year, but privately many fear the reduction could be much worse — maybe 15 or 20 percent.
It’s difficult to overstate the impact that sort of cut would have. Layoffs would be unavoidable. Ballots could be stuffed with levy requests. Advanced classes, which cost more, could be dropped. Class sizes would go up. The state could take a huge step backward in school quality.
Mr. Kasich is adamant that creating jobs is his top priority, but, of course, having strong schools is central to making Ohio an attractive place to do business and to the effort of turning out educated workers.
Mr. Kasich is obligated to tell voters and the people who have to run schools precisely what his plan is.
Permalink | Comments (64) | Post your comment | Categories: Editorials, Education, Ohio government, Ohio politics, Scott Elliott
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By Kurt
November 11, 2010 6:45 AM | Link to this
School budgets getting hard to meet, ok, here’s a start; fire grief counselors, fire anger management counselors, fire the assistant principals, fire the study hall monitor’s, fire the assistant to the assistant superintendent, and please fire all the science teachers teaching the global warming myth, and fire the teachers with a soft spot in their heart for Marxism. There, there’s a start.
By Brian
November 11, 2010 7:36 AM | Link to this
To ensure that poor school districts do not end up bearing a disproportionate share of the cost-cutting burden, simply reduce what every school district receives by the exact same percentage (so that all school districts share the same reduction proportionately). Then, let each school district decide for itself how it plans to manage what’s left. Start with a freeze on salaries, step increases, seniority bonuses, COLAs, and pensions. Keep a small performance bonus for the top 10% performing teachers in each school. Focus the money directly on the children - nothing peripheral to that. (Tough economic times require tough financial decisions.)
By Informed Taxpayer
November 11, 2010 7:38 AM | Link to this
Gov.-elect Kasich has no intention of telling schools in the state, particularly the big urban schools, what he is likely to cut with the aid of the state legislature. Rest assured they will all do whatever their corporate paymasters tell them to do.
By joe_mamma
November 11, 2010 7:42 AM | Link to this
We’re broke. If “Big Education” is unwillingly to take cuts then they need to step up and specifically cite where else in the state budget the cuts need to come from. Simply put there just isn’t enough money to go around, someone has to do with less. The private sector is largely proactive when it comes to innovation, trimming expenses and increasing productivity…it’s a constant process. For the most part that’s not the case in public education because the dollars show up every year regardless of performance. Its sad really because a majority of educators work very hard at an often difficult job. Educators have been sold a bill of goods that is simply unsustainable and defies basic economic principles.
By ukgirl
November 11, 2010 8:31 AM | Link to this
I dont know what is going to happen to our schools. In my area they keep putting levies on and they keep failing. I do not want higher taxes but the kids do need a good education, so you have to vote yes on them. Now with a “do nothing but give rich people more and poorer people less” governor in office I am afraid ALL schools are going to suffer even more. The Pubs want your kids to have a better education as long as you foot the entire bill for it yourself and their kids get to go for “Free” Not only are the ‘pubs a party of NO they are the party of “I want everything for free and the heck with everyone else!”
By Stacy Law
November 11, 2010 8:44 AM | Link to this
Well this is a rare moment, but I agree 100% with DDN. Moreover, Kasich needs to do the WILL OF THE PEOPLE, not some preconceived agenda of his own ideology. Ohio needs to let Kasich know we will recall him.
By J
November 11, 2010 8:52 AM | Link to this
Place a 20% tax on all CEO bonuses that go directly to the schools.
By Skeptic
November 11, 2010 8:55 AM | Link to this
I’d rather pay for better schools now than more prisons later. What do you think will happen to poor and middle-class families with fewer and fewer educational choices?
By Jesse
November 11, 2010 9:07 AM | Link to this
COULD THE DDN BIAS BE MORE TELLING!!!Kasich is not even in office yet and here we go with all of the doom and gloom…Where was all this when Strickland was doing so poorly???I AM QUITE SURE THE NEW GOVERNOR WILL NEVER BE GOOD ENOUGH FOR SOME,,,NO MATTER WHAT HE WOULD DO…
By Tough break But....
November 11, 2010 9:16 AM | Link to this
Schools have to take it on the chin like everyone else.Of coarse they will be back with special elections for millages to cover what the state cuts. If money was the problem with education, we fixed it several billions ago. It’s ashame for kids, but they know the recession has hit at their homes as well, and there likely won’t be much in the way of jobs regardless of their level of education over the next few years.
By J
November 11, 2010 9:18 AM | Link to this
EXACTLY JESSE! Kasich isn’t even in office yet and already he has lost over $400 million dollars in funds for this state with more destruction to go!
By NCF
November 11, 2010 9:36 AM | Link to this
The man’s not even in office yet, but that’s no reason to stop the fear-mongering. Why can’t you people come to grips with the fact that nobody can keep spending money they do not have, not even the state. You need to pay more attention to Brian and his post, and less attention to your “entitlement mentality”-driven views of how the world works.
By concerned
November 11, 2010 9:40 AM | Link to this
I am upset that Kasich doesn’t see that the 3C passenger train would bring all kinds of jobs and tourism to Ohio. He wanted to use the stimulous money for other things that probably includes bonuses to his supporters.
By Department of taxation
November 11, 2010 9:41 AM | Link to this
Skeptic, Thank you for your volunteerism. Forty percent (education) of the eight billion dollar budget deficit is 3.2 billion,divided by 5,330,000 employed, amounts to $600. per taxpayer additional needed. Please forward a check at your earliest convenience.
By J
November 11, 2010 9:43 AM | Link to this
@NCF, when you have 1/3 of your salary going to pay taxes, you ARE entitled to decent schools for you and your children.
By NCF
November 11, 2010 9:59 AM | Link to this
How many people actually have 1/3 of their salary going to taxes? You’re being ridiculous. And attempting to re-work what I said into a straw man. The schools are not entitled to money that the state doesn’t have.
By TRS
November 11, 2010 10:02 AM | Link to this
At every levy, we are told that much of the school budgets are because of state driven unfunded mandates. Lets dump a few of those to start. Give the local administrations some leeway; but, hold them accountable. I do have empathy for many educator’s argument that much of the issue is cultural. Always remember seeing a report about Kansas City schools in which the court ordered upgrades to poor building and new buildings where appropriate. Turned out the older, upgraded school which required parental involvment did much better than the brand new schools. In sum, money wasn’t so much the issue as the culture.
By O bye yo
November 11, 2010 10:12 AM | Link to this
The railroad is a simple solution. We need to spend 6 years figuring out other ways to route our money to those chosen. Well, Kasich has a job and doesn’t know all Ohio has to offer the world! Repression We are a diamond in the rough! Air Force Museum, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, And so much more!!!
By LB
November 11, 2010 10:19 AM | Link to this
As a taxpayer, I do not feel it is any other taxpayer’s responsibility to care for myself or my family. Education included. My husband and I thought carefully about the financial burden every child we might have would place upon us. Raising a child is expensive. Too bad a large portion of the population does not think it to be their own personal responsibilty to take care of themselves or their family. Start with getting rid of he teacher’s union, then fight for charter schools. Tax money should follow the child, not the other way around.
By FAM
November 11, 2010 10:21 AM | Link to this
Business realizes that good schools/Universities are a valuable asset for them, and this variable is one of the major factors in determining where they locate. So why do communities/States give and Businesses take large tax abatements, that deprive schools/Universities funds then need. Corporate welfare costs us all. Who is really getting the Free Lunch, the people or the Corporations?
By LB
November 11, 2010 10:33 AM | Link to this
LB - Your post clearly presents that you have been very responsible and fortunate. I wish that everyone could be as fortunate and focused, however,I am sorry that empathy and a sense of community are not among the treasures that you have accumulated to date.
By J
November 11, 2010 10:42 AM | Link to this
You’re right NCF, that amount is way too low. After taxes are taken out of your salary, you then pay taxes on gas, merchandise, telephone, electricity, paper products, property, etc., etc.
By null
November 11, 2010 11:13 AM | Link to this
Accountability is a separate issue from arbitrary budget cuts. Cutting teaching staff hits the local economy. Where are those people going to find jobs next? That just continues the downward spiral. My kids have vice principles, counselors, and therapists at a very good medium-sized school. The school also has a lot of diversity and high parental involvement. They focus on character-building traits and are results-oriented. They have good grades and low absenteeism. School budgets should certainly be reviewed, but there is no sense at all in harsh cuts. And you will not draw new businesses/employers with subpar school systems. Those people have kids, and they need to be able to draw top talent to whatever area they pick. Some people want to live in a civilized society.
By Ricardo
November 11, 2010 11:51 AM | Link to this
It’s really not a big secret - the state must reduce expenses by about 16% in order to balance the next budget. If I were a public school administrator, I would plan for a 16% reduction in state aid, plus or minus 2%. Ready, set, plan!
By FAM
November 11, 2010 11:58 AM | Link to this
Ricardo - I agree that at least a 16% short fall will exist in the next State budget. How about planning for an increase of 16% in your taxes. Ready, set plan!
By Ricardo
November 11, 2010 12:07 PM | Link to this
FAM: Nope - I’m taxed enough already. Public organizations must learn to live within their means, just like everyone else.
By NCF
November 11, 2010 12:14 PM | Link to this
Rolling my eyes at you, “J”. Being taxed does not automatically mean you’re entitled, no matter the amount._ And “null”, continuing to arbitrarily overspend when there’s no funds left also continues the downward spiral, but makes it worse over all.
By karon
November 11, 2010 12:21 PM | Link to this
Kasich must use that 400 million that Ohio received for passenger rail ONLY! Kasich knows that! If Kasich tries to use it toward anything else , he will be arrested!
By Train Police
November 11, 2010 12:28 PM | Link to this
karon is correct!
By FAM
November 11, 2010 12:32 PM | Link to this
Ricardo - I am sure that the Public organizations that serve you and every other citizen believe they have been cut far too much already, and think that you must learn to provide more financial support to your community. Possibly there are more than just one view of the world, and instead of holding your view as the only right view, that you could seek and consider other views.
By Mike R
November 11, 2010 12:38 PM | Link to this
I love it how some people believe the easiest solution to our problems is to punish the ones who are successful. Like the comment made about taxing CEO’s 20% more. Hmm. Let’s think this through. The vast majority of businesses in Ohio are small biz…What will their reaction be to more taxes? They’ll move out of state and relocate to a state that is more business friendly than Ohio. It might make “J” feel better that he stuck it to the man, but at the end of the day it just exasperates the problem by lowering the state’s tax base, and limits employment opportunities. FAM makes a point about post-secondary schools and universities being part of the metrics businesses use in deciding where to locate. But lets be clear—it’s only part of the decision making process. California has some of the best universites in the country, but over the past several years more businesses have moved OUT of the state than in anytime in history. Why? Most business cite tax burdens—or the lack there of in more pro-biz states.
By bobby
November 11, 2010 12:40 PM | Link to this
FAM, The pendulum is in the process of swinging a different direction for the public sector. Benefits and retirement for public workers will need to be scaled back to compensate for the deflationary enviorment we are living in. Taxpayers no longer want to pay retail prices for public wages and benefits. If you want to keep them at current levels, become more productive(as the private sector has been forced to do) and reduce staff.
By Daedalus
November 11, 2010 12:42 PM | Link to this
What I found odd about the economic debate in the America is that both parties are right. Republicans are right some wasteful services need to be cut and there are many. Democrats are right you are going to still have to raise taxes, Austerity measurements folks=less services, higher taxes with a whole lot of inflation mixed in. The sad thing is it doesn’t matter who is in power it’s going to happen. We can’t just keep swapping parties just because they haven’t fixed a perpetual problem in 2 years. If companies want deregulation then they should pay higher taxes because the truth is with less regulation they don’t have to hire as many in quality assurance, auditors or pay for some overblown PR campaign because the EPA says so; so those are $$$ saved. I am a public servant and I’m telling you me and mine are going to be thankful for what we have and not break the country by living beyond our means. Its just that simple you can’t afford a new car don’t buy it, your kids might have to share a room. If you cannot afford children or possess the education, spirituality, or morals to provide to them then please don’t have them.
By bobby
November 11, 2010 12:43 PM | Link to this
Correction:environment
By Daedalus
November 11, 2010 12:43 PM | Link to this
What I found odd about the economic debate in the America is that both parties are right. Republicans are right some wasteful services need to be cut and there are many. Democrats are right you are going to still have to raise taxes, Austerity measurements folks=less services, higher taxes with a whole lot of inflation mixed in. The sad thing is it doesn’t matter who is in power it’s going to happen. We can’t just keep swapping parties just because they haven’t fixed a perpetual problem in 2 years. If companies want deregulation then they should pay higher taxes because the truth is with less regulation they don’t have to hire as many in quality assurance, auditors or pay for some overblown PR campaign because the EPA says so; so those are $$$ saved. I am a public servant and I’m telling you me and mine are going to be thankful for what we have and not break the country by living beyond our means. Its just that simple you can’t afford a new car don’t buy it, your kids might have to share a room. If you cannot afford children or possess the education, spirituality, or morals to provide to them then please don’t have them.
By TRS
November 11, 2010 12:46 PM | Link to this
FAM - your 1st post wonders why tax abatements. Businesses do consider quality of schools but is it a determining factor? Businesses are bottom line folks. Here’s a harsh reality. All communities competing for business brag about their great schools. Sure, there is some tangible proof they can point to but given all things as equal (and they often are) I doubt if a CEO and their board say “we’ve got to relocate here because they have great schools”. It is a factor but not as much a determining factor as some might believe. Tax abatements are a different matter because they are tangible and directly affect the bottom line. I know of no community which is fond of giving away tax $$ unless it makes sense and bringing in business and jobs makes sense. As for your simplistic solution of increasing taxes - we don’t need to speculate about such results. We need only look at NJ or California which lost much of is affluent population and many businesses because they took your approach. Ultimately it led to a loss of revenue. There are no simple answers. I have relation on Medicaid because of age and a cronic illness. Medicaid is to be cut as well. I could pound on the desk and demand this not happen or I can face reality. It would be wonderful to have enough $$ for both to be funded fully but simply put - we can’t. We’re broke. Most everyone has been through tight financial situation. Most folks tighten their belts and get through it. Why do we believe that works for us but not government?
By FAM
November 11, 2010 12:53 PM | Link to this
Mike - I agree that taxes are a major driver of business decisions related to moving jobs. Unfortunately, it is not just, or even mostly the State/Local taxes driving the Jobs out, but the Tax incentives that abound for Out sourcing Companies. California, Ohio and many other manufacturing States have lost more from Out Sourcing then any other reason. If we continue to provide the tax incentives, the jobs will continue to disappear in Ohio and elsewhere. By the way, the CEOs are a target on the left just like the Single parent with three kids is a target for the right. The reality is most CEOs are not greedy, and most single parents with kids are not welfare queens, but for simple minds they make simple targets, and today, too many people want quick and simple solutions to their, and the world’s problems.
By getoverit
November 11, 2010 1:14 PM | Link to this
How about Wall Street/big business living within our means? The two are not separate, whether you like it or not. No one has a problem with hard work/ability = success. However, each individual should also have the opportunity for a certain quality of life. We have a problem with disproportionate earnings/wealth/resources of a few at the expense of the many. Class disparity is like every other political/financial interaction - people will get away with whatever they can, including claiming that they have divine right of authority. And you bought it. How’s that for simple minds?
By J
November 11, 2010 1:21 PM | Link to this
@NCF, paying taxes without receiving any benefit from them is called “taxation without representation”. @Mike R., BS! It is the already overcompensated CEO that is “sticking it” to the middleclass now. Every single one of them is replaceable, so if they run the company into the ground, they should be fired instead of receiving millions of dollars in bonuses!
By Daedalus
November 11, 2010 1:32 PM | Link to this
Each individual does have an ability for a certain quality of life. What I am saying is where is the money going to come from to continue in this direction? For instance, you have cities involved in economic development hunting for businesses to give abatements to. Why? How can we continue to afford to take the “if we build it they will come” approach? Why would we build infrastructure on hopes or wishes. City government has one responsibility and that is public safety, public works, education (results driven). Not deciding who gets how much money for the hundreds of festivals that we have, which by the way demands police and fire presence, sometimes overtime. The people buying houses for 329k when they knew in their minds that they could only afford 180k played a large role in this too. The banks (wall street) can offer but you don’t have to buy.
By Perspective
November 11, 2010 1:34 PM | Link to this
Karon!! This discussion is supposed to be about education not trains. Please stop posting under different names about your stupid trains.It isn’t going to happen so get over it please.We are all tired of hearing it! Now,I myself have voted for every levy our school district has put up but only after research into how money was being spent and how the levy money would be spent.It’s the only way to make an informed decision.Our State Supreme Court has already ruled the current system is unconstitutional but yet none of our elected officials have tried to find a different way to do it. This is what we should hold them accountable for doing.(or not as the case may be)
By getoverit
November 11, 2010 1:43 PM | Link to this
Daedalus, you got burned again. There is such a thing as predatory lending, and there used to be laws against it. There is nothing wrong with having home ownership as a goal per se. Do you think insider trading is okay as well? I had an IRA that lost money over the course of ten years. Wall Street built a house of cards. How can the average person succeed in this environment. You can’t get a good job at GM or a factory or construction (see article on returning vets) anymore. How is that providing opportunities for everyone. CEOs should be allowed to stripmine companies making record profits? And get bonuses for their “accumen”? I don’t think so. I also don’t want to live in the city you aren’t planning. If you can’t plan for efficiency and prosperity, your accumen is lacking. And why is it that you believe in a free market for employers, but not organized employees? Makes no sense whatsoever. But you will find that your dollars are getting you less and less and less … . Oh, wait I know! Those school kids should be working in factories for pennies!
By Mike R
November 11, 2010 1:44 PM | Link to this
J, name me 5 current CEO’s whose company is domiciled in Ohio, has run their firm into the ground, and is overcompensated. And please define overcompensated.
By karon
November 11, 2010 1:45 PM | Link to this
Perspective, you better hope Ohio does get those passenger trains! Already states are starting to build up into passenger trains, If Ohio doesnt get connected with the interstate system , Ohio will become a poor state like Mississippi!
By Mike R
November 11, 2010 1:56 PM | Link to this
LMAO, Karon! God help us! We don’t want to become like Mississippi! Better rethink those trains! LOL!
By davidss2
November 11, 2010 1:59 PM | Link to this
The silly folk who think trains are a transportation method for a state with long distances between populations centers need to get a life. They are like the global warming folk changing data to try to make it prove that global warming was manmade. — - - - — - — My best TV news story after the elections was a woman name karon being videotaped in front of the train trestles through downtown (what there is of it) Dayton. She was just devasted that someone else wasn’t going to be spending hundreds of millions plus per year to maintain those out of state monies. Some people just have no sense of priorities with money, especially if it’s other people’s monies. No one is going to ride the damn trains after they take one trip on them just to be able to say, “I rode the 3-c train!!! Look at me! Look at me!!!” Kasick has already started to improve on what Strickland was afraid to start taking care of a year go to prevent our deficit from being as large NOW as it it. Too bad, Ted! Bye.
By J
November 11, 2010 2:31 PM | Link to this
@Mike R., if the company has been run into the ground then their can’t be a current CEO running it.
By NCF
November 11, 2010 2:40 PM | Link to this
Wow, “J”, that’s hardly the definition of “taxation without representation.” But don’t let that stop you from continuing to post your entitlement-minded nonsense.
By TRS
November 11, 2010 3:13 PM | Link to this
Ohio has a total state debt of $68,961,315,845 when calculated by adding the total of outstanding debt, pension and OPEB UAAL’s, unemployment trust funds and the 2010 budget gap as of July 2010. The current problem is an 8 BILLION $$ deficit to be spread over a smaller population of 11.5 Million and far fewer businesses than existed in the past. What I’m hearing is keep on keepin’ on - just tax people more and build a choo choo. Ya’ think?
By Leslie
November 11, 2010 3:23 PM | Link to this
When the dems took control of Congress in 2007 they banned the old fashion light bulb, claiming it was not energy efficient. Congress forced all those people that manufactured the light bulbs to lose their jobs all in the name of energy efficiency - to protect the environment. Government interfered and forced manufacturing to close forced job loss. The replacement light bulb is made in China, yes it uses less energy, but it is not environmentally friendly, it contains mercury. How many of you using these light bulbs actually dispose of them probably after all they are a bio-hazard? After decades of eliminating mercury in this country we are not importing it from China and disposing of them in land fills. When was the last time a hurricane came through Ohio? Then why do business signs have to meet hurricane standards? Yes I mean hurricane not tornado. I just love the brilliance of government. People that work for the government are just naturally more intelligent than regular everyday serfs.
By Mike R
November 11, 2010 3:37 PM | Link to this
Not Ohio based, but AIG, Freddie and Fannie, GM and Chrysler were all run into the ground…they all currently have CEO’s. Back to the point…as you allude to…If the current CEO is successful (i.e., not running the firm into the ground) why should they be punished with an additional 20% tax?? Superintendents are the CEO’s of the school. Based on the results they are running their business into the ground!! In Wisconsin the avg. superintendent’s salary is $130K. In Metro Atlanta the avg. is $270K. It ranges from $216K to nearly $400K a year. In Ohio 25% of ALL sups are currently collecting retirement benefits and still avg. over $100,000 in salary…Closer to $120K for city schools. Should they be punished an additional 20% for being greedy?
By Mike R
November 11, 2010 3:47 PM | Link to this
Two years ago, Leslie. That was the last time a hurricane, or the remnants, came through Ohio. I remember Ike well.
By guy in dayton
November 11, 2010 4:50 PM | Link to this
Here we go again; how is the education system going to solve a social problem. 70% of African American children born into single parent families; 9% of a student’s time spent in school and 91% spent out of school; … We have a social problem and a Dr. Spock problem. Many students show little or no respect to educators, families are quick to side with children in disputes, School Boards are terrified of litigation; did not used to be that way when families reinforced education and educators. 91% vs. 9% all the funding in the world “ain’t” going to change that environmental ratio.
By guy in dayton
November 11, 2010 6:52 PM | Link to this
X years ago the USA was number one in education, so what has changed? The schools are a lot fancier, they have environmental controls (air conditioning), they have all the latest high-tech equipment, the class sizes are smaller, there is no corporal punishment, there is no mandatory shop class, there is waning respect for educators and little discipline. So why is there now this gap between the USA and the other countries of the world that put us in 17th place? Cannot be the schools, it must be some other factor. So more money pumped into education is going to solve the problem? Sorry Secty. Arne Duncan; you cannot solve a social problem with an educational solution.
By Mike R
November 11, 2010 6:54 PM | Link to this
guy in dayton brings up an interesting topic…the social-economic circumstances of students. Go to the curriculum, or student handbooks, of the local districts on the web. The DPS has 5 strategic goals listed—They’re interesting since most other districts in the area aren’t driven by most of these goals. 4 of the 5 goals, or 80%, have nothing to do about educating! Goal #2 is to have a safe and secure environment. #3 is to deliver excellent customer serice, both internally (teachers) and externally (pubils and parents). WTF? This is my biggest beef with DPS’s listed goals. Back in the day, when I was a student, if the system was concerned about my satisfaction I probably wouldn’t have learned a damn thing…and would have ended up being a drain on society, not a contributor. Quite frankly, I believe it’s wrong for any school to view a student as a “customer.” After all, isn’t the “customer always right?” Part of the problem is too many eductors learn a buzz phrase, or word, at some far-off convention and decide to incorporate that into their powerpoint presentation and eventually their strategic principals. #5 is to earn the trust of the entire community. Seriously? Who cares if Grandpa Jones, sitting on the front porch smokin’ a cig, has the trust of DPS? The parent(s) needs to trust their kid is receiving the education he or she MUST have to compete in the new century, and the DPS has to have the RESPECT of the student. The student handbook goes on to explain DPS’s philosphy…In bold type it starts out “four-year students are urged to read the entire booklet.” I bet that’s a relief to all the miscreants who are thinking about dropping out of school…They don’t have to spend 30 minutes reading the entire handbook. #4 is to demonstrate fiscally responsible practices. While I applaud that effort, it shouldn’t be the stated goal of any school. That’s the responsibility of the superintendent and board.
By Mike R
November 11, 2010 7:10 PM | Link to this
guy..I believe the drop in our academic competitiveness accelerated with the creation of the Dept. of Education. Now that we’re in belt tightening mode, let’s kill the Dept. of Ed. and funnel that money back to the states where they can have more say on how education dollars are spent.
By earl
November 11, 2010 7:51 PM | Link to this
Maybe I am just remarking the obvious but haven’t the public school systems demonstrated that there is little correlation between cost and quality education? Etymologically, education is to “bring forth from within”. Unfortunately, with this definition, the government school system has our wallets in mind.
By null
November 11, 2010 8:00 PM | Link to this
Mike R,Amen!
By Daedalus
November 12, 2010 12:21 AM | Link to this
Getoverit you seem to be misunderstanding what I am saying. What I am saying is if you have made bad financial decisions Lord knows I have, which took me years to get my credit back, you know full well you can’t afford a certain type of house. Am I saying you shouldn’t have the right to own a house because of a few human mistakes no. What I am saying is why not purchase a house that you can comfortably afford to pay for. I know predatory lending exist, but trust me you know when its predatory , because if you are subprime meaning a FICO of 550 or lower you know darn well that you missed payments on credit cards or you are on chexsystems from overdrafts. If and I mean if you are that person why would you pretend that you can handle a sizable mortgage say 280K for your “dream-house?” Am I saying more deregulation no, notice in one my posts I stated that if corporations want deregulation they should pay more in taxes. Am I saying corporations are darlings no, what I am saying is that they are business enterprises that are based wholly on profits they garner from you, me and everyone else consuming hence the principal of capitalism. In a nutshell what I am saying is just because someone offers to sell you a house or pipe dream does not mean you have to buy what they are selling. If you didn’t you wouldn’t have to worry about CEO’s and their taxes, bottom-line.
By Joe Lacey
November 12, 2010 1:48 PM | Link to this
To Kurt who said “fire the teachers with a soft spot in their heart for Marxism”. You are the reason why it is so difficult to fire teachers because of problems with their performance. When people want to fire teachers or any public servants for their political beliefs then it is understandable that we need a process, as cumbersome as it might seem, to protect people from losing their jobs because of their political beliefs.
By null
November 12, 2010 2:38 PM | Link to this
It’s not hard to figure out that Kurt must have beem educated in the kind of school system he’s advocating.
By guy in dayton
November 13, 2010 10:09 AM | Link to this
I agree Mike, we the tax payers are paying students something in excess of $54.00 per day ($54.94) to go to school ($10,000 per student per year at 182 days attendance). They are not customers, they are employees.
By An educator
November 20, 2010 11:15 AM | Link to this
Mr. Kasich needs to be up front with the Community Colleges. Many faculty members have voted for him; many have not. Most affected will be the contingent faculty (the full time non tenure track and the adjuncts) if there are cut backs. To assure quality education at that level, Mr. Kasich in his efforts to create jobs must promote policies which will save the jobs already in place. If he does not he will be and will deserve to be a one term governor. To help him promote such policies, he would be well to consult with the Ohio Conference of the AAUP and be attentive to the many faculty members throughout Ohio, including myself, who will write to him. I will be willing to share my comments with the DDN. More important than anything else will be to urge Community College administrators including my own administration to adhere to or surpass the 60 % full time faculty recommendation of the Ohio Board of Regents. This can be done by creating new tenure track and non-tenure track full time lines and equally important by recalling full time non tenure track faculty who had been reduced to adjunct status back to full time status. Such faculty members have served their community college credibly during their years of full time work by seeing that college as their primary workplace and by being actively involved in teaching, working within their departments on curriculum and other matters and interacting with an counseling students. These things are all too often forgotten when administrative expediency and desire for flexibility get in the way. I would appreciate any comments.
By A critic
November 20, 2010 6:32 PM | Link to this
Kurt…Let’s do a different approach. Non renew all of the superfluous administrators. Do not allow them to have huge bonuses. Keep their salaries within respectable levels. On the community college level, make them more attentive to the faculty and less attentive to self promotion and grandstanding by investing in faculty and what they need to do an effective job in the classroom or in the lab as well as the compensation and benefits needed. Concentrate on the education mission instead of on labels (ie, adjuncts, lecturers, tenure track and tenured). Concentrate on what the individual faculty member is capable of doing not on some HR generated label. The president should proudly call himself “president” instead of CEO. The community college is a school, not a corporation….Students should know Marxism. Need I go on and on. React if you want….I am listening.