By holder

May 18, 2011 1:58 PM | Link to this

Facts: Adult nonsmokers who die each year from exposure to secondhand smoke: approx. 50,000 30,000+/- gun related deaths each year in the U.S. Just Sayin

By Just Saying...

May 16, 2011 10:33 PM | Link to this

Excuse me…..I can’t smoke in a bar! Why? Because the second hand smoke might kill… the people who don’t. Right? HUM….But it’s ok to carry a gun in a bar? I guess that’s safer then the second hand smoke. Just saying

By Nohio

May 16, 2011 4:06 PM | Link to this

Guns….in bars. Guns. In. Bars. As if Ohio needs something else to look stupid about. I recall when President Obama was elected, the kooks went wild. “He’s gonna take our guns away, Thelma-Lou!!” If only…

By amazed

May 15, 2011 12:54 AM | Link to this

Has anyone stopped to think that at this very second there are thousands of guns already in bars, being carried by felons,drug dealers,etc without any regard for safety. I am for this bill…..I dont know about you, but I would want the right to defend myself in any of these establishments when some random felon decided he wanted to pull out his stolen gun and start shooting. The law abiding citizens should have this right, seeing as how the ones that dont obey the law already do this on a daily basis.

By Quentin

May 14, 2011 11:51 PM | Link to this

Retired Sgt lost any respect I had for him a long time ago. He overstates the training police get and when I challenged him on it being so extensive as someone who has been through it, he went quick to insults and even threats of violence. Of course he then tried to back off claiming he did not say the threats and etc and even called me a liar about it. It shows a serious problem though that is he really is a former police officer, not only is he concerned with keeping power strictly for those with a badge but also demonstrated how many might abuse it and then lie about the fact later. I have many friends still on police departments and in other sectors of law enforcement and have great respect for them, but I also know and have seen enough who are corrupt or like Sgt to know anyone who thinks we should trust ONLY the police for protection and to ensure our safety must be delusional or have been lucky enough to not have run across an officer like Sgt. Of course the amusing part is Sgt likes to tell people they need to be a man and not go dangerous places or anyplace they need a gun or even that they are not a man if they rely on one yet here is someone that refused to man-up and admit they threatened a disabled veteran that knows the actual topic well enough to show the holes in his bull he claims on this site.

By holder

May 14, 2011 10:38 PM | Link to this

Thank you for your service Recon Marine fighting for both the first and second amendment. Each is equally important and I appreciate your dedication to both.

By Perspective

May 14, 2011 8:06 PM | Link to this

Thank you Don for a perspective(pun intended lol) from a state where it’s already legal to carry in establishments that serve alcohol. I also agree with your last statement. I tell people all the time the biggest defense against becoming a victim of crime is being aware of their surroundings at all times. The criminals want an easy mark not someone who may fight back.

By Don

May 14, 2011 12:15 PM | Link to this

Most of the arguments against this law, as usual, are based on “feelings” and “common sense” (which isn’t all that common these days and is often wrong). Everyone has an opinion on what will happen, much of it based on the usual script from groups like the Brady Campaign. This isn’t new, and the experience of other states doesn’t make their case so it’s simply ignored. I live in Pennsylvania. There is no training requirement for a License to Carry Firearms (our version of a CCW). It is legal to carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol or in a bar. It is legal to have an alcoholic drink with your dinner. You can carry in churches and the non-secure parts of airports. Avoid schools, courthouses, and federal facilities and that’s about it. It has been that way for decades. No guns signs are almost unheard of, and have no legal standing — kind of like “keep off the grass.” This is also the case in other “wild west” states like New York and Massachusetts, where it has likewise been in place for decades. So what’s happened over all those years? No “blood in the streets” (or restaurants), no shootouts down at Miss Kitty’s saloon. The folks in Philly are as anti-gun as any city around, and they never bring this up. Nobody’s claiming that it chases away tourists or increases their insurance costs. As for the question “why would you need a gun in a _??”, the answer is simple. If it thought I’d NEED a gun I wouldn’t go there. But I wouldn’t go if I thought I NEEDED a fire extinguisher, either. I’m not looking for somebody tho shoot and I’m not some kind of wannabe cop. I don’t obsess over the gun and just go about my business. I do pay a little more attention to what’s going on around me, but everybody should do that anyway. Not acting like a victim, armed or not, is the best deterrent of all.

By Recon Marine

May 13, 2011 10:43 PM | Link to this

@Retired Sgt… Most of your arguements are ignorant. Using your fear, we should make everything illegal. Driving cars, walking across streets, eating hard food, etc. That is a moronic arguement. Oh, by the way, not all of us CCW holders are untrained slack jawed yokels. In fact, As a disable Recon Marine, I would be willing to be I could take your side arm from you with little to no problems. I could probably do it with at least 60% of police officers. I teach these type of things now for a living. You are judging a whole group based on limited few. I don’t know what you were a sgt of, I assume a police force, but I spent 11 1/2 years of my life fighting for this country and the Constitution that allows law-abiding citizens the right to carry a gun (2nd Amendment) as well as, law-abiding citizens to make moronic arguements on Blogs for the DDN(1st amendment) kind of like you continually do on the subject of CCW. I hope that we never are in the same resturuant or bar together where something bad happens. I would do my part to stop it and protect you and others in the bar. But, I hope it never comes to that. But be sure if it did, I would do it with out reservation and wouldn’t ask for a thank you or even give your sorry but an “I told you so”. That being said, if you don’t like it, I have a solution for you. Stay in your home, never come out. Just sit there on your computer and complain about this and that, don’t go to any public place again, then it won’t be any of your problem

By holder

May 13, 2011 9:16 PM | Link to this

good discussion. If I owned a bar/ restaurant I would want to be known as CC “friendly”. My bet is that I would have virtually zero crime. Criminals look for easy targets right Sarge?

By Quentin

May 13, 2011 8:14 PM | Link to this

Some things to remember, police arrive AFTER the crime in most cases, criminals know they have a gun and where it is and they are no different that other people in the end. Some are good, some are not. No different than many CCW holders I know who are better trained and have a lot more practice than most police officers. Others it is the reverse that people like Retired Sgt talk about but no matter what, we can’t demand that only police have rights due to government training and power granted to them and then say we will not trust normal CCW holders. Doing so creates different classes of citizens in rights for people which is something we SHOULD be afraid of.

By Jim

May 13, 2011 2:11 PM | Link to this

I believe that a criminal will be a criminal, and therefore will carry a weapon with the intent to do criminal things with it at his own discretion. Therefore I (who am a well trained Ex-Brinks Man, as well as other training) should be able to defend myself anywhere a criminal may decide to end my life. And I think that every criminal should have this thought run through his stupid head; ‘Hey, there’s a good chance that no matter where I am. There’s a do-gooder with a CCW just waiting to do good’. Peace to the righteous my ‘CCW Brothers in Arms’.

By Ray

May 13, 2011 12:05 PM | Link to this

“most officers are still killed with their own weapons”- Sorry Sarge, those killed with their own weapons in the vast majority of the cases, the weapon was stolen out of their car, not taken off their person. Ok Corral, Wild Wild West, ask the other 40 or so States if that happened. Hint: it didn’t. Cops just have a fit if a citizen wants to protect himself instead of letting Barney Fife do it. Let me guess Retired SGT, a missing front liscence plate is a pet pieve of yours.

By Ray

May 13, 2011 11:46 AM | Link to this

“but in most cases, you will be disarmed” Projecting again Sarge?

By It's about choice

May 13, 2011 11:18 AM | Link to this

Should this bill become law,I will not patronize any public drinking establishment that doesn’t display a sign that prohibits firearms on premises.

By David

May 13, 2011 11:17 AM | Link to this

Stop me if you’ve heard this one: A man walks into a bar. Excuse me, Governor FAIL, er, Governor Kasich walks into a bar. He yells out, “How many people in here are packing?” Half the customers pull guns and show them to hizzoner. The Governor’s Highway Patrol escorts PANIC and all 18 of them throw themselves bodily on top of the Governor to protect him. The gun-toters PANIC and start shooting one another. Film at 11.

By Sunshine Law

May 13, 2011 10:27 AM | Link to this

What if you had a concealed carry permit and just openly carried? Isn’t that in itself a deterent?

By Raredon Holtz

May 13, 2011 7:03 AM | Link to this

There are very responsible gun owners that deserve the right to carry. We should have smoking in bars again as well. The Ohio two item vote was very improper and should have been a one item vote. I believe this will not rest until it is placed on the ballot again, written in plain English!

By Jeviden Coomer

May 13, 2011 6:47 AM | Link to this

These libs don’t like the progress for gun rights I see. As long as responsibility goes along with your right to carry, I see no problem. I am not pleased the associated press gave false numbers regarding Obama’s being 60 some percent re-electable! That poll was not conducted properly!

By jay

May 13, 2011 5:19 AM | Link to this

I don’t Know about the Rest of you But I wish By Retired Sgt would go back to Work,He thinks only Police Officer’s should be allowed to Protect their Family’s.As to Police Protection Their always a phone call away or Arrive after the Fact.

By Retired sgt

May 13, 2011 5:06 AM | Link to this

Sorry for the typos…damn iphone

By Retired Sgt

May 13, 2011 5:04 AM | Link to this

@ holder: As I said, polioce officers are highly trained too, yet are still disarmed. I am not sure what level of training you personally have, but in most cases, you will be disarmed. Likewise, I dont really want someone pulling yet another gun in a crowded bar, as it would almost always result in gunfire and innocents likely injured. Police are trained in shoot dont shoot scenarios, back drop scenes, and de-escalation techniques. A CCW Holder is not. The last thing I want is OK Corral inside a frickkers, appleby’s etc…This isnt the wild west people. The likelyhood of an armed robbery during bar hours are miniscule. The potential for abuse is much higher…

By holder

May 12, 2011 9:17 PM | Link to this

@ retired Sgt— how are you going to know who has a gun or not-hence concealed carry. I agree that action is quicker than reaction but there are those of us out here highly trained to know if we pull a gun it is not for show— just a thought

By Kim

May 12, 2011 9:02 PM | Link to this

Is this logical? Come on now, carry a gun into a bar and do not drink!! That’s like me going into a bar and Not smoking—it doesn’t happen, I still smoke in the MAJORITY of places.

By Retired Sgt

May 12, 2011 4:36 PM | Link to this

BTW, Perspective, thank you and John F for your posts yesterday. While we can disagree, we try not to be disagreeable…

By Retired Sgt

May 12, 2011 4:13 PM | Link to this

@ Perspective: In the Frickers incident, the incident involved a LEGAL CCW permit holder, acting ILLEGALLY, thus he was arrested and permit revoked. As I said before, my main objection to the CCW in a BAR is not that the CCW permit holders en masse will act illegally while in there, BUT, if an incident did happen they may either: act inappropriately for the situation, try to diffuse the situation and mishandle the firearm with accidental discharge, or be disarmed themselves, creating a worse situation. Keep in mind, CCW Permit holders are not trained in retention skills. Police officers receive hundreds of hours of training, 60+ hours of firearms (Academy), with multiple yearly qualifications, continuing training throughout their careers in defensive tactics designed in weapon retention, yet, with all that training, most officers are still killed with their own weapons (This year excluded). Now, if an officer can be shot/killed by being disarmed with all that training, what do you think the chances of a CCW Permit holder with 8 hours of training is going to do with a spontanious attack? In a bar? With numerous people around? Bad idea folks…

By Perspective

May 12, 2011 3:57 PM | Link to this

@Sad I hate to tell you Sad,but your citing the CCW license holder involved in the AZ shooting makes the case that CCW license holders ARE capable of making a good decision as to when to use their weapon and when it isn’t necessary. While I understand Retired Sgt’s point I must respectfully disagree with him. There will most likely be a very small increase in the number off CCW people carrying in bars. The people that want to carry in bars already do and have no respect for the law. The felllow cited in the Frickers case was carrying ILLEGAL and now has had his CCW license revoked. I’d say he had very little respect for the law and is probably still carrying in bars. Most of the CCW license holders will be at restaraunts that happen to serve alcohol and as Retired Sgt has reminded all of you,any establishment that doesn’t wish to have CCW licensees carry in their establishment can put up a sign saying it’s not allowed and no one can legally take a firearm into that business. I really don’t see the big issue here with allowing LAW ABIDING CITIZENS to carry their weapon on their person in a business that has no problem with them carrying in their establishment. Are there CCW holders that will break the law? Of course,but they should be and are treated on an individual basis instead of taking it out on the CCW license holders who obey all the laws.

By Ohioan

May 12, 2011 3:40 PM | Link to this

I think this bill is crazy NO I dont think that guns should be in allowed in a bar I think it’s a cause for more problems to persist, rather someone is being told you can bring your gun but don’t drink come on this is freaken insane.

By Rob is scared

May 12, 2011 3:38 PM | Link to this

put on some big oy pants rob…geez ya coward

By Rob

May 12, 2011 3:19 PM | Link to this

@Sad. The police are not everywhere. CC is a way to defend yourself should someone threaten your life and a right protected by the Constitution. CC people are not scared..get the point? @ jon. It takes money to hire people. The government takes your money. The gov. creates jobs which are not necessary. Hence the word create. You are probably to brainwashed to get that point. By the way, Conservative means you live within you’re means not off other peoples earnings.

By Sad

May 12, 2011 2:36 PM | Link to this

I don’t understand the level of fear that is evidenced by this discussion. The chances of being in the wrong place at the wrong time are truly astronomical. You have a much higher chance of winning the lottery or being struck by lightning. And as the recent tragedy in AZ shows; the wise CCW on scene understood that more shooting would make things worse and chose to act physically. Suppose he had made the choice to shoot; the police, who arrived very quickly, would have found two shooters! And the brave CCW might be dead too. Crime is down almost everywhere, we just don’t need to be scared! A loaded gun under a jacket makes us feel very powerful and protected. Protected from what?

By Lori

May 12, 2011 2:34 PM | Link to this

What’s the point of having a gun in a bar? What’s the point of going to a bar if you are not going to drink (dd excluded)? How are the bartenders going to enforce the “no drinking” rule if the gun is concealed, they won’t know who is carrying. Whole thing sounds like trouble for all involved….

By James Mark

May 12, 2011 2:33 PM | Link to this

I think it is fine for responsible gun owners to be allowed in bars and restaurants with their weapons. I support Boehner and the House. I am not pleased with the Catholic reaction to John Boehner and believe they are wrong regarding Republican efforts. The poor should and will be cared for. Just not in the OBama socialist form. I believe the Associated Press presented false numbers about Obama being electable. False poll numbers.

By James Mark

May 12, 2011 2:32 PM | Link to this

I think it is fine for responsible gun owners to be allowed in bars and restaurants with their weapons. I support Boehner and the House. I am not pleased with the Catholic reaction to John Boehner and believe they are wrong regarding Republican efforts. The poor should and will be cared for. Just not in the OBama socialist form. I believe the Associated Press presented false numbers about Obama being electable. False poll numbers.

By Lori

May 12, 2011 2:27 PM | Link to this

What’s the point of having a gun in a bar? What’s the point of going to a bar if you are not going to drink (dd excluded)? How are the bartenders going to enforce the “no drinking” rule if the gun is concealed, they won’t know who is carrying. Whole thing sounds like trouble for all involved….

By Retired Sgt

May 12, 2011 2:07 PM | Link to this

@ohiodale: you have no reading comprehension skills do ya…I already pointed out that the brady campaign site was an advocacy group, however incidents cited by them are in fact actual incidents. As for the two “Accidents” as you label them, is exactly making the point that weapons retention is a big part of why I am against the carry of firearms in a bar. You dismiss these incidents as “oh, well, they shot themselves in the leg..” however, they could have easily struck the person next to them, the bartender, or the person across the bar. Also of note, in both of these situations the permit holders were in fact violating the law by consuming while carrying, and the mere mishandling of the firearms themselves. YOUR critical thinking ability is in question ohiodale, not mine. Liquor and guns, possessed by people who generally have just 8 hours of shooting training and no retention training etc, is a bad idea. I guarentee you ohiodale, if you had a gun on you in a bar and I know it, and wanted to take it from you, there is nothing you can do to keep me from taking it from you. And it is not just me, it is most anyone would be able to disarm you, as it is quicker to act than to react. Most CCW permit holders carry their weapons haphazardly in coat pockets, or stuck in their belts, or in a single retention holster. In each of these cases, it is very easy to be disarmed, or accidentally discharge the weapon under stressful conditions. I dont want that to happen in a bar where numerous people are because some 8 hour wonder thinks it is his right to sit in a bar with his gun on his hip.

By Retired Sgt

May 12, 2011 2:07 PM | Link to this

@ohiodale: you have no reading comprehension skills do ya…I already pointed out that the brady campaign site was an advocacy group, however incidents cited by them are in fact actual incidents. As for the two “Accidents” as you label them, is exactly making the point that weapons retention is a big part of why I am against the carry of firearms in a bar. You dismiss these incidents as “oh, well, they shot themselves in the leg..” however, they could have easily struck the person next to them, the bartender, or the person across the bar. Also of note, in both of these situations the permit holders were in fact violating the law by consuming while carrying, and the mere mishandling of the firearms themselves. YOUR critical thinking ability is in question ohiodale, not mine. Liquor and guns, possessed by people who generally have just 8 hours of shooting training and no retention training etc, is a bad idea. I guarentee you ohiodale, if you had a gun on you in a bar and I know it, and wanted to take it from you, there is nothing you can do to keep me from taking it from you. And it is not just me, it is most anyone would be able to disarm you, as it is quicker to act than to react. Most CCW permit holders carry their weapons haphazardly in coat pockets, or stuck in their belts, or in a single retention holster. In each of these cases, it is very easy to be disarmed, or accidentally discharge the weapon under stressful conditions. I dont want that to happen in a bar where numerous people are because some 8 hour wonder thinks it is his right to sit in a bar with his gun on his hip.

By Retired Sgt

May 12, 2011 2:07 PM | Link to this

@ohiodale: you have no reading comprehension skills do ya…I already pointed out that the brady campaign site was an advocacy group, however incidents cited by them are in fact actual incidents. As for the two “Accidents” as you label them, is exactly making the point that weapons retention is a big part of why I am against the carry of firearms in a bar. You dismiss these incidents as “oh, well, they shot themselves in the leg..” however, they could have easily struck the person next to them, the bartender, or the person across the bar. Also of note, in both of these situations the permit holders were in fact violating the law by consuming while carrying, and the mere mishandling of the firearms themselves. YOUR critical thinking ability is in question ohiodale, not mine. Liquor and guns, possessed by people who generally have just 8 hours of shooting training and no retention training etc, is a bad idea. I guarentee you ohiodale, if you had a gun on you in a bar and I know it, and wanted to take it from you, there is nothing you can do to keep me from taking it from you. And it is not just me, it is most anyone would be able to disarm you, as it is quicker to act than to react. Most CCW permit holders carry their weapons haphazardly in coat pockets, or stuck in their belts, or in a single retention holster. In each of these cases, it is very easy to be disarmed, or accidentally discharge the weapon under stressful conditions. I dont want that to happen in a bar where numerous people are because some 8 hour wonder thinks it is his right to sit in a bar with his gun on his hip.

By Retired Sgt

May 12, 2011 2:07 PM | Link to this

@ohiodale: you have no reading comprehension skills do ya…I already pointed out that the brady campaign site was an advocacy group, however incidents cited by them are in fact actual incidents. As for the two “Accidents” as you label them, is exactly making the point that weapons retention is a big part of why I am against the carry of firearms in a bar. You dismiss these incidents as “oh, well, they shot themselves in the leg..” however, they could have easily struck the person next to them, the bartender, or the person across the bar. Also of note, in both of these situations the permit holders were in fact violating the law by consuming while carrying, and the mere mishandling of the firearms themselves. YOUR critical thinking ability is in question ohiodale, not mine. Liquor and guns, possessed by people who generally have just 8 hours of shooting training and no retention training etc, is a bad idea. I guarentee you ohiodale, if you had a gun on you in a bar and I know it, and wanted to take it from you, there is nothing you can do to keep me from taking it from you. And it is not just me, it is most anyone would be able to disarm you, as it is quicker to act than to react. Most CCW permit holders carry their weapons haphazardly in coat pockets, or stuck in their belts, or in a single retention holster. In each of these cases, it is very easy to be disarmed, or accidentally discharge the weapon under stressful conditions. I dont want that to happen in a bar where numerous people are because some 8 hour wonder thinks it is his right to sit in a bar with his gun on his hip.

By Retired Sgt

May 12, 2011 2:07 PM | Link to this

@ohiodale: you have no reading comprehension skills do ya…I already pointed out that the brady campaign site was an advocacy group, however incidents cited by them are in fact actual incidents. As for the two “Accidents” as you label them, is exactly making the point that weapons retention is a big part of why I am against the carry of firearms in a bar. You dismiss these incidents as “oh, well, they shot themselves in the leg..” however, they could have easily struck the person next to them, the bartender, or the person across the bar. Also of note, in both of these situations the permit holders were in fact violating the law by consuming while carrying, and the mere mishandling of the firearms themselves. YOUR critical thinking ability is in question ohiodale, not mine. Liquor and guns, possessed by people who generally have just 8 hours of shooting training and no retention training etc, is a bad idea. I guarentee you ohiodale, if you had a gun on you in a bar and I know it, and wanted to take it from you, there is nothing you can do to keep me from taking it from you. And it is not just me, it is most anyone would be able to disarm you, as it is quicker to act than to react. Most CCW permit holders carry their weapons haphazardly in coat pockets, or stuck in their belts, or in a single retention holster. In each of these cases, it is very easy to be disarmed, or accidentally discharge the weapon under stressful conditions. I dont want that to happen in a bar where numerous people are because some 8 hour wonder thinks it is his right to sit in a bar with his gun on his hip.

By Joanie

May 12, 2011 1:58 PM | Link to this

Once again, squirrelly’s prejudice is showing, as she shoots her mouth off without facts. Obama has taken no action to curtail guns rights and, in fact, it became legal to bring guns into Federal parks during the Obama Administration.

By Retired sgt

May 12, 2011 1:55 PM | Link to this

@ ohiodale: talk about critical thinking and reading comprehension, you have neither. First, I noted that the Brady campaign website was an advocacy group, but cited true incidents. Apparently you missed that. Second, your “accidents” of shooting themselves in the leg exactly emphasizes my point that weapon retention, or rather lack thereof, can cause injury to persons. In this case it was the CCW permit holders themselves, but it could have easily been the person standing next to them, or across the bar. So who cares if a gun is discharged in a bar? We all should be Dale. Finally you state that those incidents were accidents and not criminal in nature. Sorry to burst your bubble, but they were in fact criminal in nature. In both cases, the permit holders were consuming in the bar while armed, in violation of standing state law. The improper handling in and of itself would be criminal even if they weren’t consuming in the bar to to the improper discharge of the weapon. Your analogy of driving to the bar should then be illegal is so stupidmof an argument, it need not be responded to any further.

By Retired sgt

May 12, 2011 1:55 PM | Link to this

@ ohiodale: talk about critical thinking and reading comprehension, you have neither. First, I noted that the Brady campaign website was an advocacy group, but cited true incidents. Apparently you missed that. Second, your “accidents” of shooting themselves in the leg exactly emphasizes my point that weapon retention, or rather lack thereof, can cause injury to persons. In this case it was the CCW permit holders themselves, but it could have easily been the person standing next to them, or across the bar. So who cares if a gun is discharged in a bar? We all should be Dale. Finally you state that those incidents were accidents and not criminal in nature. Sorry to burst your bubble, but they were in fact criminal in nature. In both cases, the permit holders were consuming in the bar while armed, in violation of standing state law. The improper handling in and of itself would be criminal even if they weren’t consuming in the bar to to the improper discharge of the weapon. Your analogy of driving to the bar should then be illegal is so stupidmof an argument, it need not be responded to any further.

By Retired sgt

May 12, 2011 1:55 PM | Link to this

@ ohiodale: talk about critical thinking and reading comprehension, you have neither. First, I noted that the Brady campaign website was an advocacy group, but cited true incidents. Apparently you missed that. Second, your “accidents” of shooting themselves in the leg exactly emphasizes my point that weapon retention, or rather lack thereof, can cause injury to persons. In this case it was the CCW permit holders themselves, but it could have easily been the person standing next to them, or across the bar. So who cares if a gun is discharged in a bar? We all should be Dale. Finally you state that those incidents were accidents and not criminal in nature. Sorry to burst your bubble, but they were in fact criminal in nature. In both cases, the permit holders were consuming in the bar while armed, in violation of standing state law. The improper handling in and of itself would be criminal even if they weren’t consuming in the bar to to the improper discharge of the weapon. Your analogy of driving to the bar should then be illegal is so stupidmof an argument, it need not be responded to any further.

By Retired sgt

May 12, 2011 1:43 PM | Link to this

@ ohiodale: talk about critical thinking and reading comprehension, you have neither. First, I noted that the Brady campaign website was an advocacy group, but cited true incidents. Apparently you missed that. Second, your “accidents” of shooting themselves in the leg exactly emphasizes my point that weapon retention, or rather lack thereof, can cause injury to persons. In this case it was the CCW permit holders themselves, but it could have easily been the person standing next to them, or across the bar. So who cares if a gun is discharged in a bar? We all should be Dale. Finally you state that those incidents were accidents and not criminal in nature. Sorry to burst your bubble, but they were in fact criminal in nature. In both cases, the permit holders were consuming in the bar while armed, in violation of standing state law. The improper handling in and of itself would be criminal even if they weren’t consuming in the bar to to the improper discharge of the weapon. Your analogy of driving to the bar should then be illegal is so stupidmof an argument, it need not be responded to any further.

By Lil Ms KT

May 12, 2011 12:58 PM | Link to this

Thank you, Ohio House of Reps. I appreciate your vote of confidence in CCW and not believing the stereotype that CCW permit holders are simpletons and can’t obey the limitations put on them. We’ve been doing it this far. I have every confidence that, statistically speaking, we’ll continue to obey the laws. Thanks again!!! :)

By Squirrellygirl

May 12, 2011 10:57 AM | Link to this

If Obama has his way you won’t be allowed to have any guns except for hunting, and then he’ll outlaw those. Seriously. We need a smaller government, less regulations. Let’s stop paying the government for not doing its job! How about that? You can’t legally carry a gun in a bar if you are drinking. Criminals don’t care about the laws, so it doesn’t matter if there is a law or not.

By ohiodale

May 12, 2011 10:55 AM | Link to this

@ Retired SGT - The incident in VA was an accident and has nothing to do with a crime. So what if people who carry guns into a bar accidentally shot themselves in the leg. I know people who drive cars to bars who accidentally kill people driving drunk. Let’s make it illegal to drive a car to a bar. The other site you reference, “bradycampaign.org” is completely biased and doesn’t count unless you also reference a completely opposite point of view. Have you ever took a class on critical thinking?

By Shallow End

May 12, 2011 9:51 AM | Link to this

Are you more likely to be killed by second hand smoke or a stray bullet, or (for karon’s benefit) high speed rail?

By Retired Sgt

May 12, 2011 9:18 AM | Link to this

@TIRED OF IT ALL: Typical assinine comment made by you. Further response is not needed. @An honest look: perhaps you should have an honest look at the post that I made. I cited the miller lane incident as a retort to a previous poster that said CCW permit holders have “NEVER” shot anyone in a bar inappropriately. I cited that incident as evidence the statement was incorrect. Perhaps you should have an Honest Look at the links I provided that included an incident in WV, and another link about CCW permit holders violating the law. I also posted them as a retort that CCW permit holders do in fact violate the law. This was also as a retort to the previous poster. As I have said in the past, generally, CCW permit holders act in accordance with the law, however, blanket assertions that they ALL do is not correct. Just like the police incident you cite, all police do not make the right choices either. Making blanket statements that ALL do something, or ALL dont do something, is naive and incorrect. I have also cited the reasons why I believe, based upon previous experience, Alcohol and Guns do not mix. CCW permit holders, generally, (I understand that some individually may have advanced training), have the bare minimum training in how to shoot. That is it. Weapons handling is important, but even moreso in bar locations, where physical altercations can frequently occur. Most CCw permit holders are not trained in weapons retension, and are not trained in the psychology of shoot scenarios. This can be a dangerous situation. As stated before, I am not against CCW permit holders, but there are reasons why you cant carry a firearm in certain areas. Courts, Hospitals, Police Departments, Jails, and Schools are a few, because the danger of the firearm outweighs your right to carry it there. Such, I believe, is the case for liquor establishments. As previously stated, all the Liquor permit holders need to do is post NO Firearms on the door of the establishment and it nueters the CCW Permit holders right to carry.

By Upright is right

May 12, 2011 8:35 AM | Link to this

Chuckles, do you really beleive as No more Guns stated that you don’t already sit next to a person with a concealed weapon at a ballgame or a restaurant? If ignorance is bliss, you must be one happy guy.

By null

May 12, 2011 8:35 AM | Link to this

Another good reason to take my tax revenue out of this crappy state.

By An Honest Look

May 12, 2011 8:27 AM | Link to this

A few months ago, when this issue first came up, Sarge also cited the Miller Lane incident as justification for his being against the CCW bill. A few months ago, a West Carrollton cop was arrested for shoplifting. Using Sarge’s logic of one isolated incident, should it be assumed that no cops can be trusted not to steal? Come on Sarge, CCW is legal in most states, how many actual incidents can you come up with? Is it as many incidents as there are with off duty cops have with guns? The press, with their liberal anti-gun stance are very reluctant to print incidents where a CCW thwarted a potential robbery. CCW carriers are well trained and regulated. In many cases, more experienced than law inforcement. Maybe some of the anti CCW people see things thru their own personal prism, they know they are not mature or intelligent enough to handle the responsibility, so they beleive no one else can either.

By chuckles

May 12, 2011 8:17 AM | Link to this

to upright: YOU are the prime reason I dont want guns period. People like you are the scariest thing we have to deal with in this country.

By tiredofitall

May 12, 2011 8:04 AM | Link to this

Retired SGT,hmm..funny..you forgot to mention the FACT,that as a group..law enforcement that carry have killed more than any single group of CCW permit holders.I am just a scared of law enf officers shooting me.I am not talking in the line of duty either.

By Retired Sgt

May 12, 2011 7:50 AM | Link to this

Sorry for the typos..Also, Mr. Obvious, there was a CCW permit holder a few years ago at Frickers Miller Lane, who improperly carried his gun into Frickers and accidentally shot his GF in the leg when his gun fell out of his coat pocket and discharged. She was saved by her cell phone, which was in her pocket. More evidence that your statement is incorrect..

By Retired Sgt

May 12, 2011 7:46 AM | Link to this

I hope this link posts as a retort to Mr. Obvious: http://ohhshoot.blogspot.com/2010/11/concealed-carry-permit-holder-shoots.html In this case, the CCW holder shot himself in the leg while ordering a beer. If you go to the bradycampaign.org, there are many other documented incidents involving mishandling of weapons and violations committed by CCW holders. While this is an advocacy group site, the incidents are real and documented. The only reason I post these sites is to dispell the notion that CCW permit holders NEVER commit crimes, which of course is incorrect. The majority do act properly, but to make a statement that ALL do is assisne…

By Mr. Obvious

May 12, 2011 7:36 AM | Link to this

When was the last time you heard of a law abiding Concealed Handgun License holder actually shooting someone in a bar? NEVER!! When was the last time you heard of a criminal shooting someone? It f’ing happens every day!! And it happens every where!! They’re criminals and don’t care about the law. My handgun can quite possibly save the life of someone in your family one of these days. Keep that in mind when your little girl wants to go out with friends late at night.

By Retired Sgt

May 12, 2011 7:36 AM | Link to this

Under the law, Liquor Permit holders will still have the right to reject CCW in their establishments. THEIR rights will trump CCW Permit Holder rights to carry in the permit locations. I am sure Stadiums like 5th Third and Great American BP will also enact policies that prohibit carry inside their stadiums. My unscientific poll of many of the area permit locations revealed widespread opposition amongst permit holders to allow the carry in their locations. If the bill is passed 92% of my “poll” (over 60 area bars/franchises) indicate they would reject carry in their establishments, nullifying the intent of the law. While CCW permit holders are “generally” law abiding citizens, as are most drivers of motor vehicles are, there are still going to be a percentage, just like operators of motor vehicles, that will violate the intent of the law, and consume alcoholic beverages while carrying, or be illegally intoxicated while possessing firearms. Any statement that CCW permit holders would never carry while consuming is making an assine comment. The majority will act properly, but there will be a percentage that wont. The bar owners hold the key. If they dont want it in their locations, post a sign not allowing it in you location. Possession on a marked premises will result in arrest and disqualification from CCW Permit holding…

By Mr.Ohio

May 12, 2011 6:54 AM | Link to this

John F Based on your silly rant it is probably best you don’t live here. Someone in a bar stone cold sober could now shoot you. You are a perfect example of the old adage, ignorance is bliss.

By John F

May 12, 2011 12:35 AM | Link to this

Again, another reason why I left Ohio. You’re bleeding jobs, your infrastructure is crumbling, your education system is laughable at best, and the people have the intelligence of gnats. And this is the kind of manure the Republicans are worried about. You ARE the laughing stock of the country. Yes, we laugh at you, not with you.

By holder

May 11, 2011 11:46 PM | Link to this

ever go to WalMart or Kroger’s Mr Logic??

By holder

May 11, 2011 11:44 PM | Link to this

ever go to Walmart or Kroger Mr Logic??

By Mr. Logic

May 11, 2011 11:19 PM | Link to this

Your so right True Story, will never patronize a business that allows guns.

By holder

May 11, 2011 10:55 PM | Link to this

ccw holders already passed a background check. What about the guy next to you? The only thing I am hiding is the one thing that might save your life. Think about that the next time you and your family are out and about.

By True Story

May 11, 2011 10:49 PM | Link to this

The business still has the right to refuse entry and service for anyone carrying a gun. Which all family busineses will do. Leaving only the loser dive bars.

By Seg

May 11, 2011 10:24 PM | Link to this

Concealed carry holders have put themselves out in front of the police and declared their intent to carry and put up with additional scrutiny associated with this right. A criminal just does it. I have heard of no statistics saying a concealed carry permit holder are being caught drinking with the firearms. As for having them sitting next to your kids, the criminals and drug dealers concern me, not the lawful concealed carry permit holder. I hope concealed carry holders continue to increase as well as their participation in the shooting sports. As stated above, this bill is consistent with other states. Thanks to the ohio house members who passed the bill and hopefully the senate and governor will quickly agree.

By HH

May 11, 2011 10:03 PM | Link to this

It’s worked well in michigan why not in ohio. Would you rather have it stolen from a vehicle while you are inside the pub having a hamburger . As long as the pub serves more food than alcohol it should not be a problem.

By karon

May 11, 2011 9:35 PM | Link to this

I think this is going to actually hurt bars. People are going to have a second thought about going into bars, and even working there!

By NoMore Guns

May 11, 2011 9:32 PM | Link to this

Well, check it out. The bill says places of public acommodation that sell alcohol. That’s Paul Brown Stadium, Great American Ball Park, Dragon’s 5/3 Field. Gives a new meaning to ‘Kill the ump’ doesn’t it?! I’d rather be saved by trained ballpark security, not the CCW toter who thinks it’s their obligation to protect the world.

By null

May 11, 2011 7:51 PM | Link to this

Leave it to the DDN to deliberately mischaracterize what thislegislation is really all about. Simply put, a CCW license holder can now go straight to eat at a place like Red Lobster after spending a few hours at the shooting range without having to go home and take off his gun. That’s all. This law does not create drunks toting guns in bars, and has not created any problems in any of the 40 plus states who already have such a law. In fact, if the guy at the table next to you is carrying a concealed weapon, you will never know it is there, unless he needs to defend you and other patrons from a real lunatic with a weapon. All of the mass shootings in this country would have had far fewer casualties had there been a man with a CCW license around to stop it. That’s a fact.

By Lantz

May 11, 2011 7:37 PM | Link to this

This sounds like a really bad idea. Similar to drinking and driving, drinking and carrying will be difficult to prohibit.

By Can you walk Upright?

May 11, 2011 7:10 PM | Link to this

Hey you D* A liberals!!!! Did any of you actually read the article? and No More Guns…if you are so lacking in the ability to think logically (and clearly you are) there’s not much hope for you. A CCW permit holder would be the last person in the situation you describe. I have absolutely no problem with my kids being close to a CCW carrier under any circumstances, but I would have a serious problem with my kids being around a pin-headed simpleton like you.

By Swede

May 11, 2011 7:06 PM | Link to this

Some jobs will be created as CCW holders can now patronize restaurants that have a liquor license. I know several how will not patronize anyplace they cannot carry.

By fastwillys

May 11, 2011 6:13 PM | Link to this

Where the H3LL are the jobs. Ka-Suck, he didn’t get the jobs done.

By Ken

May 11, 2011 6:07 PM | Link to this

It is disappointing that the DDN consistently write articles on the subject with nothing but arguments from one side. Why don’t you try to sell more newspapers and give the other side of the argument: Self Defense Rights? Being such a liberal newspaper, I wouldn’t be surprised if DDN is against self defense.

By NoMore Guns

May 11, 2011 5:27 PM | Link to this

Did they fix the language that allows gun toting drunks at the beer counter at baseball or football games? Want them sitting next to your kids?

By kncjr

May 11, 2011 4:53 PM | Link to this

I promise not to drink and drive, I mean drink and shoot.

By Pearl

May 11, 2011 4:53 PM | Link to this

Does this article have anything to do with jobs? No. Glad to see this bill got the OK but I think we all knew it would go through. Now we are finally getting close to having what other states have had for years.

By jon

May 11, 2011 4:27 PM | Link to this

man, these conservatives really had me convinced they were gonna get in there and create all these jobs, jobs, jobs.

By jon

May 11, 2011 4:18 PM | Link to this

man, these conservatives really had me convinced they were gonna get in there and create all these jobs, jobs, jobs.