By Article by Meredith Menden

February 22, 2011 9:30 AM | Link to this

Teachers’ hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or10 months a year! It’s time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do - babysit! We can get that for less than minimum wage. That’s right. Let’s give them $3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be $19.50 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM with 45 min. off for lunch and plan— that equals 6 1/2 hours). Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children. Now how many students do they teach in a day...maybe 30? So that's $19.50 x 30 = $585.00 a day. However, remember they only work 180 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations. LET’S SEE…. That’s $585 X 180= $105,300 per year. (Hold on! My calculator needs new batteries). What about those special education teachers and the ones with Master’s degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage ($7.75), and just to be fair, round it off to $8.00 an hour. That would be $8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children X 180 days = $280,800 per year. Wait a minute — there’s something wrong here! There sure is! The average teacher’s salary(nation wide but not in Ohio) is $50,000. $50,000/180 days = $277.77/per day/30 students=$9.25/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student—a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your kids!) WHAT A DEAL!!!!

By Where are we getting our facts?

February 22, 2011 9:20 AM | Link to this

I’d like to know what teachers are making $50-$60K/year? Where did this “average” COME FROM? I have a Masters degree AND I work in Special Education. That is FAR from what I make. I have not gotten the “automatic raise” people keep commenting about. Since I’ve started teaching I have not received a raise (5 years ago)Since I started teaching I have seen at LEAST 10 teachers lose their jobs. I’m not sure who started this rumor about teacher unable to be fired. I do have to pay into my own retirement. I do have to pay for the student loans I borrowed to become a teacher. I work approx. 9-10 hours a day without a break. Where are people getting their

By Math?

February 21, 2011 3:57 AM | Link to this

What does a “deadwood” fireman look like? Is he just too old to go up a ladder with a full set of gear? So we’ll just fire most firemen over 50? Think of the money we’ll save in pensions if we take these guys when they’re young and healthy and fire them before they can retire! Merit pay seems like a great idea until you try to work out the details.

By tvman

February 20, 2011 9:05 AM | Link to this

These IDIOT TEABAGGER trailer park Republicans are voting to ensure the affluent become even more wealthy, all at the fool’s expense. This is exactly why we MUST put more money into the country’s education system~ these dimwits are the products of our wonderful, tax payer supported schools. Pretty scary, huh?

By jon/ne

February 20, 2011 6:45 AM | Link to this

Union Cry babies, BOO HOO,Sob Sob.There’s a New Sheriff In Town so get used to it. You’ve Bullied the state for the last time.So stop the Crying take your Medicine and shut up.The Voters spoke and this is the Future.Welcome to the Real world Cry babies.

By voice of reason

February 19, 2011 11:07 PM | Link to this

I find it strange that the Tea Party is supporting a government take over of the collective bargaining process. Kasich is just trying to do for Ohio what he did for Lehman Brothers: make the rich richer and the poor poorer.

By KJB

February 19, 2011 5:39 PM | Link to this

YouDon’tKnow, You wouldn’t have had to take forced days off without pay if this Bill had passed 5 years ago. If you do a good job and you get your merit increases, then you make more money and the dead wood are let go. Every one wins! We all win! The Taxpayers of this country are tired and can’t afford you the way you are now. We like you, but we can’t afford to keep giving you raises regardless of your performance or the financial state of the state. Sorry, but the gravy train is coming to a halt.

By Jackalope

February 16, 2011 4:23 PM | Link to this

BUST EM UP JOHN!!

By Andyc1110

February 16, 2011 1:50 PM | Link to this

Wow, Leslie. Your three rambling comments in this section make it sound like you have had your share of bad interactions with teachers. Please keep in mind that this bill is punishing EVERY civil servant in the state, not just the dozen bad apples you’ve run into. As for your concern regarding unfire-able teachers, I don’t think you understand the process. ANY teacher can be fired for just cause, tenure just means the teacher needs to be given a chance to improve and admin needs to follow up on their concerns. If there is a bad teacher in your child’s school, it is the administration’s fault for not pursuing the matter (Yes, they will need to interact with union representation to do so, but to imply the process is impossible is inaccurate.)

By Leslie

February 16, 2011 12:08 PM | Link to this

MAH, do you think rich people are commenting here? We will never make the amount of money that you have made in your careers through your bonuses, sky miles, fancy spending accounts, and billable hours.” Seriously do you think lawyers and doctors are commenting here? Let me explain the private sector to you. Ohioans on average are not millionaires and make average salaries. We work the same extra hours you complain of and we do not get all of the holidays you do. We also do not get automatic pay raises and we do not necessarily get a pay raise for doing excellent work. You see if a company makes the same amount of money year after year then there is no extra money to give anyone a pay raise. We do not get sick pay and we do not get to roll over our vacation. “Stop and think about where you would be without the many teachers who have guided you to your place today.” Guided me? Guided me by discouraging instead of encouraging me? Guided me by making pre-informed arrogant decisions about me. Discouraging me from pursing a college degree. Oh and how about the teacher that told me, once I drop my children off at school I have no say in what happens to them at school. Not everybody has favorable experiences and are very frustrated that lousy public employees cannot be fired like lousy private sector employees.

By Stan

February 16, 2011 9:44 AM | Link to this

The DDN headlines are deceptive about local officials supporting the end of collective bargaining. A couple of school board members from Ohios 800 some school boards is not representative. Kasich was supposed to provide jobs but instead he is out to bust unions because they vote for his opponents. Public employees, teachers, police, fire, highway workers and yes bureaucrats do the public’s work and most work hard with little thanks and not that much financial reward. Union jobs built the middle class and while many manufacturing employers packed up to find cheaper labor, there is no reason to support people getting less pay, less health care and less retirement. That is a race to the bottom that all working people lose. The more people have to spend in the local economy the better off we all are.

By Firemedic

February 15, 2011 11:00 PM | Link to this

Since most of the public service workers I know are conservatives, this will only push more people to support democrats to protect their jobs. Thus guaranteeing Obumer another term. Way to go tea party, give away an election after such a large win.

By voice of truth

February 15, 2011 8:43 PM | Link to this

Okay. It is time for some truth. In the past nine years (that is three contracts) OCSEA State Employees have had pay freezes or cuts for 5 years. They are presently taking two weeks without pay in order to help with the states budget woes. They have voluntarily agreed to increases in health insurance costs, reduction in personal leave days off from 4 to zero, and to virtually every concession asked of them by Gov. Strickland. This union began to represent state workers 27 years ago to eliminate Strikes and work stoppages. The Union has never struck in those 27 years and had a contract go to Arbitration only ONE time and the UNION LOST!!!! Where is this big grab that you rant about? State worker wages are NINE Percent of the state budget. NINETY-ONE Percent of the budget are services that YOU are provided. Yet YOU have offered NOTHING to reduce the SERVICES that you demand. In this troubled economy YOU demand MORE services because you are more likely to NEED them. When the economy boomed, you bragged about how well you did in the stock market and how big your bonus grew each year. Public service workers got only modest inflationary raises tied to an indexed average estimation that was quite conservative. However, they knew that they gave up the opportunity to earn those grand sums in the private sector in order to have steady employment when the worm turned. Well now you have turned on them. I would advise NO ONE to enter public service if this bill passes. In twenty years this state will be like MEXICO. Our workers have been honest. The TEA Party have been liars.

By Go Steve!

February 15, 2011 8:21 PM | Link to this

Steve, you raise some very valid points, but your conclusion is flawed. These are not haters, they are clueless pawns manipulated with fear.

By Mad as 7734

February 15, 2011 7:43 PM | Link to this

Boycotting tea partiers is tricky. Boycotting Warren county (the people that voted for the sponsor of this bill) is much easier. Keep your money out of Warren County (waynesville, springboro).

By steve

February 15, 2011 7:28 PM | Link to this

I like how brave the right wingers are when slamming the public employees and other that are in unions yet voted for a guy that they will end up paying for for the rest of their lives through his own retirement plan. the politicians that put the spin on unions are in a quasi union of their own and are well taken care of after their service but that’s ok with the right’ The team of people that kasich hired and paid handsomely (or they would go to the private sector) you folks don’t mind that either. All the administrators (like Deb Feldman who lost millions of tax payers money) just keep cashing them checks. Hypocrites is what you all are, not only that but haters, none of you will be happy until there are the rich and the poor, but I got news for the 95% of you that are posting this hatred is that your going to be on the poor side, and then you’ll complain about that too. Just keep hating! There will be a judgment day. So hide behind your computer and spew away. Your all gutless cowards that hate yourselves. Enjoy your sorry existence.

By Andyc1110

February 15, 2011 7:20 PM | Link to this

RU Serious - you don’t know what you’re talking about. If you do, please let me know what district that is.

By Paul

February 15, 2011 6:31 PM | Link to this

You don’t Know: How would you like to have your hours cut from 40 to 32 for TWO YEARS? hUH? hOW would you like to pay 100% of your own health insurance? Yeah, how about that? And how would you like to have No pension whatsoever.?? THAT is the real world. Public employees have had a REAL GOOD for a long, long time. Now the states can’t afford to pay you these salaries+benefits+pension anymore. There’s NO CHOICE. Do you know what “broke” means??? Stop whining and grow up. Face the real world for once in your life. Be glad you have a job, you spoiled, whiney BRAT.

By Public Service Supporter

February 15, 2011 5:32 PM | Link to this

Peoaple are arguing that we don’t need public service workers in a bad economy. In fact, that’s exactly when we need them. Public sector workers keep our streets clean, our homes protected and our children educated. And all of these lies about teachers not being able to be fired are just stupid. Teachers can be fired for just cause at any time. The Union only protects them from being fired for no reason. Let’s just not argue about things that aren’t true.

By MAH

February 15, 2011 5:22 PM | Link to this

It never ceases to amaze me that no one ever stops to think where our society will/would be without an education. As I read through all of these comments and continue to hear and read all of the attacks on those of us who have chosen public service I become sick to my stomach, not just for now but for the future of our society. Those of you from the “private sector” didn’t give two hoots about the salaries and benefits being made by public servants as long as your salaries were far superior to ours. Now that you have fallen on hard times it is time to attack us. We are hard working citizens just the same as you. We will never make the amount of money that you have made in your careers through your bonuses, sky miles, fancy spending accounts, and billable hours. I don’t get paid for the additional 4-5 hours a day that I put into my job, making it a 10-12 hour day. I don’t get paid for the work I do each and every weekend. I don’t get paid for the so called vacation months where I am taking classes at my own expense; attending meetings and trainings (for which I am not compensated) and planning and preparing for the next year of students. I don’t get reimbursed for the thousands of dollars I spend each year for the materials for my classroom and my students. I don’t get to have a nice quiet lunch with friends each day or even go to the bathroom when I need to go. I do have to watch everything I say and do and always be mindful that each child in my classroom is the most precious person in the world to his/her parents. Also, as far as our retirement system goes, we pay into that just the same as you pay into all of your fancy investment portfolios. We do not pay into social security and therefore will not be eligible for any government type of retirement plan. I am puzzled by the constant attacks on those of us who have chosen the public service route. I have never felt so beaten down and demoralized for doing a job that I love and was called do to in my entire 22+ years. I am not in your yard throwing stones at your glass house…please stop throwing them at me. Stop and think about where you would be without the many teachers who have guided you to your place today.

By R U Serious

February 15, 2011 4:41 PM | Link to this

I keep seeing these non-sense questions about whether or not people would do “dirty work” for $8-10 per hour. But I also see something in black & white that says the average teacher’s salary in this state is over $60,000 per year. With Cadillac health insurance. With four months vacation per year. Enough sick days off that you can retire a year early if you accumulate them. And retirement before you’re 60 at full pay. You can even go demonstrate at the State Capital any time you want, without a loss of pay. Wow! Now what was that again about poor, starving public servants?

By Tom Jackson

February 15, 2011 4:33 PM | Link to this

To heck with the collective bargaining. Let’s require government employees to accept the same pay and benefits everyone else gets and be done with it. And their union dues should go to charity, not to political campaigns.

By Hugh Arreasy

February 15, 2011 4:29 PM | Link to this

Isn’t it funny how all government employees are courageous fire fighters who have been saving lives for decades? Doesn’t the government employ any bureaucrats?

By Ragnar

February 15, 2011 4:25 PM | Link to this

We need the government unions to do the same thing for government workers, that they did for industrial workers … make all their jobs go to China.

By Pat

February 15, 2011 3:41 PM | Link to this

It’s funny how many people think the world would end if it weren’t for them doing their job. It won’t. Someone else will step up and do it just fine. I see people saying all state employees should call a “general strike” and take a week off. Either they have too much money or not enough bills if they can afford to do that with no fear of falling behind financially.

By True Story

February 15, 2011 2:54 PM | Link to this

Governor K-sick the typical Right wing hypocrite, greatly increases the Ohio taxpayer paid salaries of his cabinet and staff, stating “Have to pay for good people, they could make much more in the private sector.” Yeah, only after they prove themselves ethically challenged reducing environmental,public,worker saftey, banking and loan laws. Giving one sided business deals (tax abatements,land and road improvements) to business developers at taxpayer expense. Then they make big money in the private sector as a payoff.

By Perspective

February 15, 2011 2:48 PM | Link to this

I keep hearing this yammering that police and firemen will oonly make $8 to $10 dollars an hour. Where in this Bill do you see that? Nowhere,that’s where. It’s the left practicing class warfare based on lies. The left would have all us working class folks hating corporations and anyone with more wealth than we ourselves have.That’s ridiculous. You can make as much money as you want if you make the right decisions in life and are willing to work hard to achieve your goals. I know this will get me grief from the atheists but perhaps those of you who practice this class warfare/wealth envy would do well to remember the 10th commandment- ‘You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.’

By payup

February 15, 2011 2:36 PM | Link to this

Identify any and all tea bag supported business or businesses who are owned by tea bagers and boycot it!!!! pas it on brothers we will excerise our rights too…enjoy it!

By tmcmillin3568

February 15, 2011 2:36 PM | Link to this

People are not against union workers. We’re against salary increases ‘just because you work there’. Not based on merit, not based on how good a job you do. And everyone knows that people line up for a union job because it pays more for the same job that is in the private sector. With better benefits. All at the cost of tax payer - ME. THAT’S what is wrong.

By Leslie

February 15, 2011 2:15 PM | Link to this

The unions have spoken. They have made it clear and told us they are better than us peons, they are better than us in the private sector, we are just mere sheep for them to slaughter. The unions have made it clear no one can do what they do, somehow, if you work for the public sector and you are in a union than you are some sort of supreme being that can do what no one else can do. So once this law passes and all the government union workers go on strong Ohio will fall into the earth and life as we know it will be over. Oh bow and pray to the union gods. Bring them your children for sacrifice.

By me

February 15, 2011 2:04 PM | Link to this

Left or Right. One thing is for sure this country is in a down hill slide. Reagan started it and it looks like Obama or the one after him will finish it. Blame it all on the Unions thats the Right/Teaparty poeple, blame it on big business and the far right is the left saying. Doesn’t matter, we gave up our industry to China, the new breed of American Worker is lazy and ignorant. The new Breed of Business owner hates the very people he/she wants to sell services/products to for profit. This is about hatred and loathing towards the American worker. But.. this is also destroying this country period.

By Support our public employees

February 15, 2011 1:42 PM | Link to this

Unfortunately, it is because so many of the union supporters and their family and friends stayed home in November we are finding ourselves facing this situation. With that being said, NOW is the time that public employee unions need to be organizing in protest. Just think what would happen if at 1:00 on Friday, all public workers just stopped working…wouldn’t the state of Ohio just fall apart. Furthermore, if every public employee in the state along with their family and friends signed a petition for a recall election, Kasich could be gone. Finally, I find it ironic that management throughout the state, the supervisers, managers, and directors believe their wages are not touchable…as we all know, fools they are to believe that. Finally its time to stand up for the rights of the public employees, the teacher, firefighter, policeman, social worker, those who keep our state running and say NO to Mr. Kasich.

By city worker

February 15, 2011 12:51 PM | Link to this

I agree with “juan doe” I agreed to do a dirty job and I have had to endure a lot of jokes at my expense for being a city worker. I have enjoyed working here for the most part, but when they cut our pay even more and cut benefits more, I may rethink standing knee deep in human waste. City jobs are not the life of liesure that most people think they are.

By Kristina

February 15, 2011 12:49 PM | Link to this

Circular firing squad, anyone?

By xxx

February 15, 2011 12:30 PM | Link to this

Just one question? Seriously, who will do these jobs for 8-10hr $.What kind of burden will this place on Soc Security in the future?

By Juan doe

February 15, 2011 12:17 PM | Link to this

Continued.. I accept all of these things and now I will accept that the Ohio Legislature looks at my calling as a market driven commodity, and I realize that it is. I would never talk of strike or anything of that nature as I swore an oath to the community, but I am wondering why I would continue in a thankless job that’s about to get more thankless.

By Juan doe

February 15, 2011 12:08 PM | Link to this

I accepted a lot of things when I began my career and even more things as my career progressed. I accepted the fact I would work horrible hours and that the work could be dangerous. Later I accepted that I was more likely to get complaint than a thank you, no matter how hard I tried to make sure the right thing was done. I accepted all of this because I felt my job was necessary and noble calling and the benefits would help me care for my family. I see my child a couple of hours a day if I am lucky not to have off shift court appearences

By Leslie

February 15, 2011 11:27 AM | Link to this

bub, I come from a family of teachers. I know good teachers and bad teachers. And yes the unions do protect even the bad teachers, because the unions don’t care they just want the money to support the union thugs. Without union members paying dues the thugs don’t have a salary. Visit schools? I attended public school and there were plenty of lousy teachers. My favorite had to be the teacher that did not believe in classrooms, can you even guess what happened in his classes. I also personally heard the young college kids going into the teaching profession discussing how much they hate the kids, but it sure is worth having the summers off. Yeah that is what I wanted teachers that hated kids teaching my young elementary kid. During my childrens’ school years believe me I was at the school a lot and witnessed many many lousy teachers that had concern for the children at all. I remember one teacher who even tried to get all her students put on ritalin. Believe me I have seen plenty of bad teachers that no one could get rid of and to get your child out of that class is like pulling teeth.

By city worker

February 15, 2011 11:19 AM | Link to this

I have worked for the city for twewnty+ years and make about $55,000 a year. We are a family of three with a $1200+ morgage and a couple of ten year old cars. I think we are some of the lucky city residents,but, lets face it, my job is my loyalty to the city. If everyone likes the idea of getting rid of my type from this city, so be it. I was looking for a job when I found this one!

By Burt

February 15, 2011 11:18 AM | Link to this

Everyone blames the unions for higher wages and benefits. The way I see it there are two sides to a negotiation. Why doesn’t management “man up” and say no. The unions don’t control pay and benefits, management does. Management should be blamed for not being strong enough to say no.

By Follows No One

February 15, 2011 11:05 AM | Link to this

The mind numbing drivel from the left posters here is proof positive they live by the doctrine that you can never allow facts to get in the way of a good line of crap. Same things said, same fingers get pointed regardless of the situation. Do yourselves a favor, and challenge yourself to learn beyond the limited, skewed, self-serving points of view that your baby-daddy unions provide for you. Distrust, doubt and question, then question again, and then factually verify. Stretch yourselves beyond your own world, and your own pre-conceived notions. It could be a eye opening experience for you.

By Re: Retired tax payer

February 15, 2011 10:57 AM | Link to this

The money for police and fire retirements and insurance comes from the Police and Fire retirement system, not one penny comes from the State or City when we retire. Also, we do not pay into social security, so we do not get a retirement from the feds. Police and Fire are a SELF SUFFICIENT retirement system. We pay into the system and upon retirement the system pays us back. The cities and state are not footing the bill for our retirements or disabilities. As for us being over paid, over benefited, SOMEONE on this board tell me what a police officer or a firefighter is worth in total benefits package. Remember, we have to work any shift, cancel planned and paid for vacations the day before we leave for court/extra shifts, routinely denied days off, no pay raises in almost 5 years, insurance cost going up like eveyones else, a lot less officers (over 100 less than 5 years ago), but the same amount of work. Someone tell me what thats worth. Now tell me how much that person is worth when you family is getting robbed, or you house is on fire and you want an officer or firefighter to respond. Do you want the $10/hr person who just wants it as a job, or do you want the dedicated professional who is well educated, well trained and willing to risk his/her life for yours? What is it truly worth to you?

By null

February 15, 2011 10:42 AM | Link to this

At 89 years of age I think back how the Unions helped me when I needed a job as a 23 year old returning WWII veteran, then over 37 years later retiring as a Veteran Teamster. Since retiring I have received thousands of dollars in Teamster Pension checks. Of course there were other benefits besides job security, such as health care.

By Perspective

February 15, 2011 10:36 AM | Link to this

By the way Joe Cronin.The right of the people to assemble is in the Constitution.Collective bargaining had nothing whatsoever to do with it.Please check facts (which I know is hard because the left prefers to ignore facts) before posting things that you don’t really know about.It will let us take you a bit more seriously.Oh yes ditch the insults too please.

By Perspective

February 15, 2011 10:27 AM | Link to this

Reading through these comments the thing that stuck out to me the most was the hatred of those opposed to this Bill. Name calling,class warfare,and outright threats of violence.(see all posts by Originalthought (really?) for the prime examples.) Maybe if you guys put up valid arguments against the Bill you would be taken more seriously but as long as you just keep throwing insults at folks and threatening violence it’s hard to take you as anything more than hateful people who hate anyone who disagrees with you.

By null OLD BOB

February 15, 2011 10:27 AM | Link to this

Our dues to Labor Unions and their leaders are no worse than politicians that we support with our tax dollars. The big difference is the Unions help the working class.

By Reckoning

February 15, 2011 9:52 AM | Link to this

It’s interesting to sense the panic & dread coming from all of you “public servants”. When did you come to the conclusion that you were untouchable in your pay rate & benefit packages? As this conundrum continues to gather speed…prepare yourselves for your union leaders to call a general strike…and prepare yourselves to be fired. How’s that for Hope & Change?

By It's already time for change!

February 15, 2011 9:51 AM | Link to this

This is a no brainer… Time to RECALL, our so called Governor!!! Time is NOW!!! The unions and people can get this done.. Time is NOW!!!

By Why Work Here????

February 15, 2011 9:26 AM | Link to this

If we strip the benefits and wages of being a teacher, police officer, or firefighter then, who will want these jobs. I’d rather deliver pizzas than wear a bullseye on my back for 15 dollars an hour. What amazes me is everyone is worried about public employees, but CORPORATE ENTITLEMENTS IS MUCH LARGER THAN PUBLIC WELFARE! Lets just keep backbiting whle the rich keep getting richer!

By Comrade Joe

February 15, 2011 9:22 AM | Link to this

Joe Cronin pegged himself…all the “buzz words” are there. Hey!!! I bet he’s even got a commie flag hung up in his garage. Wait…he doesn’t even have a garage…I called up and asked his wife!!!

By Bat Dad

February 15, 2011 9:18 AM | Link to this

I actually agree that public workers shouldn’t have collective bargaining rights. There are a number of protections and benefits available to state and local workers and adding collective bargaining to that is too much. That said, tea baggers are still a bunch of mouth-breathing morons.

By Retired Taxpayer

February 15, 2011 9:13 AM | Link to this

I want the “for” collective bargaining to answer one question. Where is all the money going to come from to pay for these workers retirement and insurance? If you add the welfare roles to the state taking money, it doesn’t leave many non-union, non “government workers” to support all this. If we leave the state, where will you be?

By Joe Cronin

February 15, 2011 9:12 AM | Link to this

You (T Baggers) promote constitutional rights? Ever heard of the right of free assembly, the same right that enables your hate rallies? It began because of collective bargaining, which you now want to make unconstitutional in Ohio…You are not promoting rights; you are promoting the interests of the wealthy to be left not to pay for abusing labor and the environment to make money without social accountability.

By Concerned

February 15, 2011 8:39 AM | Link to this

So, we now want $7.50 per hour workers with no benefits for our Police, Fire, Bus Drivers, Prison Guards and Teachers. I bet we can find some real quality workers to serve the Public at that rate. Tea Bags need to understand, if Labor Unions get run out of business, so goes the non-unionized workers wages as well, the middle class worker will become a thing of the past, it will be the rich and the poor. These public sector employees did not cause the financial problem this State and Country find themselves in, It was and is Wall Street greed. Maybe some Tea Bags want to work for $7.50 an hour with no benefits to protect, serve, and put their lives on the line when they take on a criminal or enter a burning building. God help this Country, we are regressing when we don’t value our Public servants we all count on to be there when we need them!

By null

February 15, 2011 8:08 AM | Link to this

Why isn’t anyone talking about cutting the pay, benefits, and retirement of the Ohio govenor and legislature? Nor is anyone talking about Senator Jones co-sponsoring bill that would give gun rights back to misdemeanor drug offenders. I guess it’s a good idea to take away teachers’, firefighters’, and police officers’ livelihood, but let’s make sure convicted criminals get their guns back.

By insider

February 15, 2011 7:34 AM | Link to this

fire them all and start from scratch. The police union and its enployees are the biggest organized racket problem hurting this city…

By bman27

February 15, 2011 7:21 AM | Link to this

As a member of the Carpenters Union we have been saying for years this will happen someday. Its just like Pearl Harbor all the this new law will do is wake up a sleeping giant. You watch what happens at the elections in three years.

By Amazed

February 15, 2011 7:11 AM | Link to this

Comments both for and against this are valid in some regard. Having said that our focus should be on entitlement programs that are ruining our state and country. We need to curb this reckless excess of people that think they deserve free everything and have never contributed anything to society. Police and Firefighters have bargained for their contracts and have not had raises in several years, have seen their department budgets slashed and are working with much less manpower.

By earl

February 15, 2011 7:10 AM | Link to this

I love a good argument where DDN allows comments. It is funny how many of the anti-Senate Bill 5 comments are unwitting indictments of the public school system. Sometimes issues are best argued by letting the opposition speak their minds.

By Proud Working Man

February 15, 2011 6:51 AM | Link to this

I’ve lived in the same house since the 1970s. I’ve worked nonstop since the 1970s. And my taxes have NEVER BEEN LOWER, including real estate taxes. Yes, they’ve tripled since I bought the house, but the house value has more than tripled. It is such a phony myth about being overtaxed. The infrastructure and service fabric is crumbling around us, and the math-challenged morons that are voting Tea Bagger crazy seem hell bent on making millionairs richer while they sink deeper into trailer park living.

By Support Your Teachers

February 15, 2011 6:40 AM | Link to this

The lawmakers aren’t really going to give Merit based pay to teachers, if they did, all teachers would finally get to earn the millions they deserve. Instead “Merit” based pay just means they are going to lower our pay. It’s not Merit based at all. The OAA scores are not a measure of how good a teacher is, they are a measure of how much a student wants to show his knowledge on a very long and boring test that the state of Ohio creates, not the teachers. A child can be a straight A student and be very bright and still get a low OAA test score, just because they are bad test takers or have test anxiety. Republicans are just cheap, they don’t want to pay their taxes and pay for schools. Republicans want everything handed to them for free.

By jusme

February 15, 2011 6:17 AM | Link to this

Well, your views are very liberal. You want to decide how others spend their money. I think this is very liberal thinking. You want the state to collect taxes and you want the state to divide the money up to the schools. In your thinking the schools would theoretically all be the same. They would all offer the same pay to teachers, offer the same extracurricular and same education. I guess in a perfect world this would be the case. Each district is made up of different groups of people. It’s this way for a reason. People move to better districts, pay more for their houses and expect to pay more in property tax. They move because this is America and they can - anyone can. They move because the district offers a better education or even because it has a better football team. If they want to pay more to be sure and get the best teachers, then it should be their choice. Here is another way to look at it. Say a teacher graduates from college at the top of his class. He has a choice of many districts or charter schools to apply to. Why would he go to a low paying charter school or private school when he has a choice? He has a student loan to pay off, probably a car payment, maybe a mortgage and kids. This is again the American way. So the best teachers are going to follow the money and the charter and private schools get the rest. You can choose to send your kids to any school you want. Charters won’t cost you any more money. If you choose to go to a private school, you must pay. One reason private schools do so well with their students is parent support. If a parent is paying to send their kids to school, you can expect them to pay a little more attention to the student’s progress and become a little more involved. So, again - please let me spend my money any way that I choose and I’ll let you spend your money any way you choose.

By Philman

February 15, 2011 5:46 AM | Link to this

Hey Bob the retired Teacher, who’s retirement check is $40.00 a month less than last year. Have ever stopped the wonder WHY?do you think it may be because of mismanagement bad investments & fraud from the status quo? now you want to attack the people trying to FIX the problem.They have done the math it wont work leaving things the way they were.WE ARE GREEDY BECAUSE WE WANT TO KEEP MORE OF WHATS OUR’S. BUT YOU ARE EXPECTING US TO SACRIFICE SO YOU CAN KEEP YOURS.

By Teacher

February 15, 2011 5:46 AM | Link to this

The lawmakers aren’t really going to give Merit based pay to teachers, if they did, all teachers would finally get to earn the millions they deserve. Instead “Merit” based pay just means they are going to lower our pay. It’s not Merit based at all. The OAA scores are not a measure of how good a teacher is, they are a measure of how much a student wants to show his knowledge on a very long and boring test that the state of Ohio creates, not the teachers. A child can be a straight A student and be very bright and still get a low OAA test score, just because they are bad test takers or have test anxiety. Republicans are just cheap, they don’t want to pay their taxes and pay for schools. Republicans want everything handed to them for free.

By Gee@Stacy law

February 15, 2011 4:13 AM | Link to this

Should police be compensated for going to court on their day off or should they be ready to do that for free too? Just asking you’ve got it figured out.

By R U Kidding Me

February 15, 2011 2:24 AM | Link to this

@ bub 11:43pm - Dude thanks for the good example of a union attitude. Why does the income level of a community in which you work have anything to do with the level of pay/benefits you are provided? This is why we will soon be in economic armagedon. You should be paid on your individual skill, effort and contribution to your job. If the citizens of a community are well educated work hard and smart - why the heck should you be entitled to big pay because you work for them? Deserve it! Earn it! America is broke, California and Illinois will proove this when they file bankruptcy this year. We can no longer afford the double dipping, kingdom building, undereducated, bad attitude govt. employees who continue to belly up to the trough to oink out at our expense. Many years ago - employment with the govt was indeed public service with low pay but with good benefits and you didn’t really have to do too much in terms of real and hard work - just lip service. Today, govt salaries in my industry far, far exceed private employer compensation and when you add on luxerious benefits and a bad working attitude - poof! you have the typical whining govt employee. TAKE A MEAT AXE TO ALL GOVT BUDGETS. CUT SALARIES, BENEFITS & JOBS. GM should be a lesson to all…. and to all a good night!

By Stacy Law

February 15, 2011 2:21 AM | Link to this

And just so we undertand each other, the same goes for the police. No one is forcing them into that career; they chose it. Yes, they deserve to be paid a commensurate wage, and they do ahe a higher probability of being a hero than a tax clerk, but the people they “serve” deserve to be treated with professionalism and respect. Police tend to forget that they are employees of the public, and act more like employees of the trade union.

By Stanley

February 15, 2011 2:19 AM | Link to this

Why do these Idiot Teabaggers continue to protest/vote against their own self interests? No wonder some Americans were able to amass such enormous amounts of personal wealth in this country. Because fools like this keep voting for tax cuts, social service cuts and loopholes for large corporations and for the very wealthy. These IDIOT TEABAGGER trailer park Republicans are voting to ensure the affluent become even more wealthy, all at the fool’s expense. This is exactly why we MUST put more money into the country’s education system~ these dimwits are the products of our wonderful, tax payer supported schools. Pretty scary, huh?

By Stacy Law

February 15, 2011 2:15 AM | Link to this

While reading the article on Helen Jones-Kelley, I noticed the reference to her as a “public servant”. What makes these people public “servants”? They aren’t working for free. Their PERS retirement is infinitely more lucrative than the private sector, and their wages simply are not substandard.

By Eddie

February 15, 2011 2:13 AM | Link to this

To disabledamerican (Lord, forgive me for what I’m about to say) but I don’t think we should PRAY for The SOULS of those who VOTE to DENY people Medical Health Care. It’s their choice to be such evil bastards. Let ‘em burn in hell along with their greatest hero, Ronald W. Reagan.

By Stanley

February 15, 2011 2:07 AM | Link to this

How stupid are Teabaggers? All I can tell you is I used to know one, and the remarkable thing was he wasn’t actually that stupid. He was merely ignorant, reactionary, narcissistic, materialistic and bigoted. Other than that, he was an ok guy. Aw hell, I’m lying. He really was that STUPID!

By disabledamerican

February 15, 2011 1:24 AM | Link to this

Lets PRAY for the 49,000 + FOURTY NINE THOUSAND plus Americans that will DIE by the of this Day since the beginning of this year, only because they can NOT Afford MEDICAL HEALTH. But more important WE must PRAY for The SOULS of those who VOTE to DENY these people Medical Health Care. May GOD have Mercy on OUR souls.

By disabledamerican

February 15, 2011 1:24 AM | Link to this

Lets PRAY for the 49,000 + FOURTY NINE THOUSAND plus Americans that will DIE by the of this Day since the beginning of this year, only because they can NOT Afford MEDICAL HEALTH. But more important WE must PRAY for The SOULS of those who VOTE to DENY these people Medical Health Care. May GOD have Mercy on OUR souls.

By Daedalus

February 15, 2011 1:00 AM | Link to this

Why not go after non government union workers in the state, you ask its Great in Dayton? I’ll tell you why they don’t exist. Look at the trend from the 80’s up until now union membership has declined because one party I will not say who has decided that it is bad for business to unionize. Less the big fat corporations have to actually pay fair wages, why its Great in Dayton only (you won’t believe this) a whooping 17% of Americans belong to unions. So sarcastically I agree with let’s go get that last 17% because they are the reason Ohio and the entire country are in trouble. Has nothing to do with AIG, Lehman Brothers, Goldman Sachs or there capitol hill buddies. Yeesh you would think you would be sick of being wrong on here every time you post your rantings.

By Daedalus

February 15, 2011 12:53 AM | Link to this

Its Great in Dayton is that you? I thought you would have moved out of this terrible city of Dayton since always dogging it on DDN. Well the X-Files geekdom is all here to bash on those of us that work everyday for a living.

By Daedalus

February 15, 2011 12:49 AM | Link to this

Today I bought my wife a valentines day gift and an apology. She has been trying to get me to move out of Ohio for years and I would not listen(stupid me!). I am a public servant with a degree from a 4 year before getting my “cushy” job where I worked during Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years, and every other holiday (seriously I am not embellishing) in rain, sleet and snow. I have yet to hear how this will attract jobs or business to Ohio. I have yet to hear how this will reduce the $8 billion budget. Also I would like to address those who believe that these jobs are so “cushy,” why don’t you apply so you can be “overpaid” (that’s a laugher if I ever heard one) and live this golden lifestyle?

By Great in Dayton

February 14, 2011 11:47 PM | Link to this

SB5 does not go far enough. We need the Right to Work Legislation in that bill. I hope someone makes an amendment to that bill to put it in there. We need to get rid of the Dems for good and turn this state around. If we get the Right to Work in there the jobs will be coming back to Ohio by the thousands. Why are we worried about just the GOVT workers what about saving the income of all forced unionized workers in Ohio.

By Paul

February 14, 2011 11:37 PM | Link to this

States can’t afford the extravagant benefits & pension packages for public employees, union and Non-Union, alike. Salary+Healthcare Insurance+Pension = Unaffordable. What’s really sad, though, is how unions have Beat-Down and brain-washed the employees into thinking they can’t survive without the union. This is sad in the worst way, because these employees literally —are Slaves to the Unions.

By Two words...

February 14, 2011 11:36 PM | Link to this

General strike.

By Two words...

February 14, 2011 11:36 PM | Link to this

General strike.

By bub

February 14, 2011 11:33 PM | Link to this

It’s not difficult to imagine an all out walk-out of teachers, policeman, firefighters, EMT’s—if indeed this legislation passes. Strike for one week, see what happens. Even for one day. Fire all of the teachers, coaches, and support staff in any district and you’ll see how valuable those individuals are to you and your children. Most people have no clue of the sacrifices teachers make, the surrogate parenting, the hours spent in continuing education, certification, etc. I’d be embarrassed to live in Springboro, or Southwest Ohio right now. The irony in all of this? Look at Mason, Kings, West Chester (Lakota) Springboro - these are the most affluent and highest achieving districts in Southern Ohio - and home to the heart of this Tea Party movement. Talk about cutting off one’s nose to spite his face. People have lost respect - for everything. Very sad.

By Upset

February 14, 2011 11:20 PM | Link to this

Ya know, Bradley, I haven’t been upset in a while. One time I WAS pissed about salary and perks…but I blew it off and calmed down. The other night I was at a sports bar playing trivia. I lost the game by one point. The question was: “Where are women most likely to have curly hair.” Appearently……the answer was Africa.

By Bob

February 14, 2011 11:11 PM | Link to this

I’m a Republican. The last time I voted, I voted for John Kasich. The first time I voted,I voted for Goldwater.I’ve voted mainly Republican all these many years. I’m a retired elementary school teacher. I’m a lifetime OEA & NEA union member, and I worked at various union jobs at the local level. If this Senate Bill 5 passes I won’t be voting Republican ever again. I’ve never believed that the Republican Party was that of and for the wealthy, but this would sure make a believer out of this poor retired school teacher whose retirement check is $40 a month less than it was last year.

By Stanley & Ollie

February 14, 2011 11:08 PM | Link to this

Stanley states the obvious as if he unearthed a sacred union chalice. Appearently…he “giggles” alot because there is something tickling his sphincter. There are emergency room personnel that will be able to relieve him of his lower end jockularity…but (sorry…butt) I think that Stanley enjoys his psychopathic dreams of Tea Party people up HIS sphincter…not the other way around. Stanley…you don’t need meds…”you need a lover who won’t think you’re crazy”.

By Bradley

February 14, 2011 11:07 PM | Link to this

You individuals who are demonizing public employees do realize that Governor Kasich and legislators, such as Shannon Jones, are also public employees,don’t you? Where is the outrage over their excessive salaries and perks?

By I don't understand

February 14, 2011 10:47 PM | Link to this

Ok you union lovers who are so excited about supporting the middle class….TELL ME WHY YOU VOTE NO ON SCHOOL LEVIES! the bottom line is that collective bargaining has given you very attractive teachers salaries and most people are now voting NO for school levies. Everyone who supports collective bargaining here needs to volunteer on those levy committees!

By Stanley

February 14, 2011 10:47 PM | Link to this

Idiot Teabaggers. They think unions are useless. The labor unions created the middle class in this country. There was no middle class before the labor unions: just the filthy rich and everone else. This is how dumb the Teabaggers are. They think the filthy rich will compensate people fairly simply out of the goodness of their hearts. I can’t get over how far up their butts these Teabaggers heads are! i giggle my butt off at you idiots!!!! hahahahahaha!!!! IDIOTS!!!!

By Gone 26 years...

February 14, 2011 10:41 PM | Link to this

I figured all of you out WAY before leaving 5 years ago…(I left 26 years ago),or figuring out that Ohio is the Mississippi of the north…as previous commentors have stated. All of you have a stench about you. There’s a “holier than thou” arrogance about your personna. I check in from time to time to see how all of you are doing…so I can comment to my relatives, who I warned not to stay around all of you bickering idiots…but I find that it’s great to be finally able to say to them: SHUT THE HELL UP! I TOLD YOU IT WAS A HELL HOLE! They are now consumed in the great battle of Ohio. Who will win?…who will lose? Most of you idiots couldn’t flick a booger off of your finger without union representation….so it’s a no brainer who’ll win and where you’re headed.

By Told U So

February 14, 2011 10:40 PM | Link to this

To all of you union members who were upset about no raises the last two years and decided to go against your union leadership and not vote in the last election or voted for Kasich. Remember, he can’t be that bad! How is change working for you now? Please vote in 2012.

By on the fence

February 14, 2011 10:32 PM | Link to this

In addition-It’s agreeable that the bad needs to be eliminated (in any profession no less) but I am also wondering how many people that are advocating for sb5 would jump at the chance for one of the affected jobs…

By Un-pay back

February 14, 2011 10:26 PM | Link to this

Boycott Warren County. These people put Jones in office. Do unto them as they are doing to the workers of Ohio.

By SD

February 14, 2011 10:23 PM | Link to this

This is so sad. Wall Street has completely ruined this country. The middle class is gone. They have sent the jobs overseas. They will never come back….never…all in the name of profit…dividends. CEO’s make 400 times the average worker…400 TIMES! And now they have turned on the public employee….once looked down upon by society as a meager….dead end job. Now, somehow they have it made? Those are the good jobs? $14.00…$20.00 an hour? That’s what your all angry about? God help this country.

By love that I left Ohio

February 14, 2011 10:18 PM | Link to this

No wonder every one leaves Ohio. I am glad that I left Ohio five years ago. Other states are prospering and growing…Ohio is a dead end welfare state. I laugh at Ohio now. Kill the working class and spit on the people that get paid little to educate your kids, protect you from crime and put out your fires. Not to mention guard your jails and do every little job no one else wants. Ohio digressing once again.

By Mississippi

February 14, 2011 10:17 PM | Link to this

Let’s set Mississippi, the least unionized, most illiterate state in the country as our goal. Warren County and Springboro in particular shines again with uneducated red neck tea baggers like Shannon Jones.

By Andyc1110

February 14, 2011 10:11 PM | Link to this

Won’t it be great? We can underpay our teachers and save some tax dollars. I sure could use an extra couple hundred dollars per year (you didn’t think schools were going to become free did you?). Problem is brain drain. The one industry that is booming in this area is research, and we’re going to start mal-treating young professionals that can find work anywhere in the country. 25 years ago, when I was starting my work as a teacher, I wanted to live near my father in Tennessee. The pay and benefits were so awful there, we agreed to frequent visits. You don’t think that’ll happen here? This is going to be very bad for Ohio.

By Carl

February 14, 2011 10:02 PM | Link to this

FYI: Public sector workers are also taxpayers.

By billy

February 14, 2011 10:02 PM | Link to this

Hahaha, I didn’t know public employees lived in multi-million dollar mansions and smoked fifty dollar bills! That’s the way you guys are acting! Most of them don’t even make six figures guys; those that do are overworked administrators working hard to provide service to you or your brat kids. I think it’s funny how people always say these public sector employee jobs are so important, and that they should earn more than athletes. That’s until they realize it comes from their precious taxes. You guys get what you pay for. We’re about to put a dent in the quality of the Ohio public services. This state is going to become very unattractive. It’s easy to target unions, they have no one to defend them. It’s easy for the big business bosses to spread propaganda against unions; our government leaders are now adopting this idea. Shame on Kasich for doing this to his workers.

By Extortion

February 14, 2011 10:00 PM | Link to this

Hey union members…your boy Jared is in jail in Tucson. Call your union buddies there, they can spring him out, get him here in Ohio, let him do what he does best…and then you can have your media and pundits blame it all on the Tea Party! Union violence is nothing new!! Hell…you have one idiot, lucy, proclaiming here that Egypt is to be the guide! Tell you what. Third and Main is close to what happened in Tafirr Square in Egypt…but Tird and main is an ongoing cluster flock. Why…with all of the union power…hasn’t that mob rule corner been tamed…made safe for we who have paid your salaries? Do you wonder why what we are paying is worth YOUR price? Enjoy the pay cuts and your eventual firing. Bye.

By Tired of BS

February 14, 2011 9:59 PM | Link to this

So everyone thinks that police officers make too much and their benefits are too good. How much would you want to get paid for placing your life on the line day after day, dealing with adult children who cant solve their problems one their own, parenting everyone elses children, mopping up drunks and junkies, and anything else that happens to come along. Our job description is specific until the last line that says we will respond on just about anything. And we his all as we spend holidays, weekends and etc away from our families while everyone else is nice and cozy. We need collective bargaining and binding arbitration because the cities, counties and state are deceptive in their practices. Fact finding and arbitration are ways to bring everything on the table by a neutral 3rd party. And despite what the idiots in the capital want you to believe, all of this information including contracts are available to the public on-line.

By busch

February 14, 2011 9:58 PM | Link to this

You thought the last storm was a hot mess. Well think about DP&l when you bust the union. God help you all. I see alot of darkness in your futures.

By Stacy Law

February 14, 2011 9:57 PM | Link to this

I am totally for Senate Bill 5, but am also totally against Kasich slashing public education budgets.

By Stacy Law

February 14, 2011 9:56 PM | Link to this

I am all for Senate Bill 5, but am totally against Kasichs’s slashing of public education budgets. It’s too much. He needs to slash other things, not public education.

By Finally . . . some sanity

February 14, 2011 9:53 PM | Link to this

I love Kasich!!! The people have spoken in Ohio and their representatives hear them. YESSS!!!! Wow…the Union people are flipping out…no more free ride of the taxpayers dollar.

By emmanuel

February 14, 2011 9:49 PM | Link to this

Republicans won’t be happy until they are back on top. To think that we bailed out wallstreet on working peoples backs for no return on our assistance. This is how they show their gratitude. The rich will always come out on top. When will we learn. Maybe we will have to shut down the US with strikes to get our point across that we have had enough. Come together and make a difference. This country is nothing without the sacrifices of the little people (tax payers). At some point we will have to take a stance why not now.

By Jennifer

February 14, 2011 9:43 PM | Link to this

I remember when Reagan fired the Airtraffic controllers because they refused to go back to work..Libs threatened it would be complete chaos …. Guess what????? No chaos at all….smooth transition…..American taxpayers are sick and tired of these gold plated entitlements for the public employees. Can’t wait to go show my support in Columbus for Senate Bill 5.

By lucy

February 14, 2011 9:43 PM | Link to this

Well Ohio you finally got what you wanted a Republican Governor back in office. You all thought Obama and Strickland were so bad. Hope you are happy now you have to suffer the consequences of your poor choices. This may be the one thing that can finally bring everyone together for a common cause to fight for teachers, police, fire fighters etc. Let Egypt be your guide. Stand up and let your voices be heard if they can do it in Egypt we can certainly do it here in our “free country”. Go Egypt

By local guy

February 14, 2011 9:42 PM | Link to this

Well, I worked 72 hours last week and only got paid for 52 because I volunteered my time for the other 20. Not to mention that 52 of those hours were up all night taking care of sick people who can’t/won’t take responsibility and take care of themselves. I’m in the union. There may be some slugs, but it surely isn’t 99% of the local Police and Fire that protects your streets.

By What you're worth...

February 14, 2011 9:37 PM | Link to this

BS asks “when will his power trip end! BS…I’d be panicky too (as you are) because you’re about to be called out of line, into the office, standing in front of the boss…who’s going to ask you what you produce, and with that production rate that you claim you produce…what are you worth pay wise? Darn boy…I’d be shakin’ in my boots too!….since you’re an overpaid union slug!

By on the fence

February 14, 2011 9:22 PM | Link to this

Wow…time to put some boots on! It’s getting deep (on both sides of the fence.) Smart people listen up -“sheeple” don’t know they’re dumb. You cannot convince them that they are right. If this whole sb5 thing goes down-sit back and see what happens when we lose all of our good teachers, police officers, city workers (specifically water, street maintenance & trash) and firefighters… Should make for an interesting news story. (Maybe we should all become reporters.) Meanwhile-stock up now on ammunition & food as I am sure Wal-Mart will be out very soon. If all goes well-then the “bad, lazy” workers will be weeded out and privatization will run its course. or something.

By BS

February 14, 2011 9:20 PM | Link to this

Kasich’s employees and new appointments are making way more than Sticklands counterparts…. While everyone else is taking pay cuts! this is not right. Now he wants to break unions so he doesn’t have to negotiate with state workers. When will his powertrip end!

By Missed One

February 14, 2011 9:19 PM | Link to this

If the car has a flat tire you don’t junk the whole car. If you don’t like the deal the unions have gotten, bargain with them in good faith and correct the problems. It is unpatriotic to disallow groups of workers from banding together to keep from being abused (that’s why we have unions- read your history). This is nothing more than a blatant attack on the middle class. there is a concerted effort to create a sefdom in America so we can all be controlled by the ultra-rich who pull the puppet strings. The plan leaves no room for ANYONE to be empowered in any way. More to come… God help us all…

By Environment

February 14, 2011 9:04 PM | Link to this

I remember “target rich environments” when I was the shooter…and the recipient of shots fired at me. I’m smiling reading the comments of all of you idiots. I thank God we’re armed with nothing but our brains and fingers…I see the synapse is working between brains and fingers with some of you! All of you will have your say. When the gunfire starts, don’t hold back. As you’ve verbally (in print…sorry) stated that all of you are right/correct/truthfull…you can then silence your opponents and begin to create the utopia you all think will occur. What political philosophy is it going to based on? National Socialism? Marxism? Anarchism? Roman Catholicism? Hey…The Boer War? NOOOOO…Unionism. Idiots. You’re all the sound of fury and hate and you signify nothing. Watch your TV, smack your wife/kid…but pay the most attention to your union rep. Loss is subjective…but your loss in having someone in a “union” run your life for you is really tragic.

By Environment

February 14, 2011 8:54 PM | Link to this

I remember “target rich environments” when I was the shooter…and the recipient of shots fired at me. I’m smiling reading the comments of all of you idiots. I thank God we’re armed with nothing but our brains and fingers…I see the synapse is working between brains and fingers with some of you! All of you will have your say. When the gunfire starts, don’t hold back. As you’ve verbally (in print…sorry) stated that all of you are right/correct/truthfull…you can then silence your opponents and begin to create the utopia you all think will occur. What political philosophy is it going to based on? National Socialism? Marxism? Anarchism? Roman Catholicism? Hey…The Boer War? NOOOOO…Unionism. Idiots. You’re all the sound of fury and hate and you signify nothing. Watch your TV, smack your wife/kid…but pay the most attention to your union rep. Loss is subjective…but your loss in having someone in a “union” run your life for you is really tragic.

By 28 years and still busting a** for my city

February 14, 2011 8:50 PM | Link to this

Oh, and two more words that should make you think about getting a hotel in Indiana. Two words that I expect you’ll be hearing very soon…general strike. They can’t fire us all.

By Gee

February 14, 2011 8:47 PM | Link to this

Where is this idea that public workers come from? I went to college for 4 years got a degree in economics and served in the military. I could have gone private sector but I chose to help my community. This is partisan politics at its worst. Also this budget deficit neutral. Doesn’t help the state budget at all. What it does is prolong hiring freezes and increase the chance of layoffs but hey what do I know I’m just a dumb public employee that needs to go to school (masters degree that I am paying for through sacrifice).

By To terri

February 14, 2011 8:47 PM | Link to this

Terri, what are you smoking? A Fairborn officer starts at about 45K per year. A top step maxed out guy makes 62K. Put up facts or don’t post. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Stop listening to your backwoods friends and find the facts for yourself.

By 28 years and still busting a** for my city

February 14, 2011 8:46 PM | Link to this

28 years I have doing right by the city I work for. I have no idea how many hundreds of hours of off-the-clock time I have willingly donated in the interest of doing what is right for the citizens I work for. Now this. People who don’t work in government do not understand the politics of government work. Merit pay will not be distributed accurately. People that self-promote, are well connected, or are very good at playing admin’s sometimes irrelevant games will get the money. Those of us that focus on getting the job done will need to jump through all sorts of extra hoops that have nothing to do with the job…just to get paid on par with the most skilled beaurocrats.

By Old Coach

February 14, 2011 8:35 PM | Link to this

Shawn, VERY well said. It’s very disheartening that people attack the police, firefighters and teachers and not those who do not and will not work for the freebies that they get.

By Laura's hooters

February 14, 2011 8:30 PM | Link to this

Laura…if they weren’t so small as you tried to push them in front of my face…I woulda’ called my Union rep to try and judge if I shoulda’ let ya’ off….

By ok so....

February 14, 2011 8:15 PM | Link to this

ok…so ive been asking all day…no one on the side of sb5 will answer…so lets try this forum… How much? how much is the cop worth? what should they be paid and what kind of schedule? and what benefits?

By Originalthought (really?)

February 14, 2011 8:12 PM | Link to this

WE built CORPORATE america… Ewe want to get rid of US?………I’ll tell Ewe what I just told Panic….Ewe name the time & place & then Ewe can get rid of OUR BROTHERHOOD one @ a time, starting w/ me! Think Ewe’re tough Ewe blog Rambos? PACK A LUNCH & plenty of bandages.. Ewe WILL bleed!

By Wow

February 14, 2011 8:05 PM | Link to this

If the Tea Party and the Republicans could find a way to send every job to China and India they would do it in a minute.

By Andyc1110

February 14, 2011 8:04 PM | Link to this

The most recent group act of the teacher union I belong to was to approve a pay freeze. Before that, was to approve an increase in health care costs. Unions make it possible for large groups of people to work together to reach fair agreements.

By Andyc1110

February 14, 2011 8:02 PM | Link to this

The most recent group act of the teacher union I belong to was to approve a pay freeze.

By Originalthought (really?)

February 14, 2011 7:54 PM | Link to this

Hey Panic…..better extract CORPORATES C@(& out of that mouth & tie a kerosene soaked rag around those ankles so the ANTS won’t eat that CANDY A$$!! Tell Ewe what, Ewe name the time & the place & I’ll show up to pound my red star up whats LEFT of it!!

By Steve

February 14, 2011 7:52 PM | Link to this

Laura . I am sorry u got caught breaking the law. I am sure you will be cleared in court. No I am not the cop who pulled you over but maybe the cop who did had just left the scene of a shooting or a domestic. Maybe on the tail end of a double shift and your I did not do it line was just more than he could deal with. We deal with the most horrible people in society everyday. You try it some day. My front seat is open anytime.

By Shawn

February 14, 2011 7:48 PM | Link to this

Charlie…I don’t know what you do or how much you make. And You have no idea how much I make. This is a great example of the “mob” mentality griping the republicans. I am a republican and very conservative. The “mob” of tea-partiers is focused on the wrong target. You should be focused on ending entitlements for people that have no desire to work. In my line of work I rarely deal with someone that has a paying job. If they do its because their probation officer made them get one. There are so many people that get free food, free health care, free transportaion, free housing, etc. etc… If you attack cops and firefighters you will see us leave the profession. Corruption will creep into law enforcement as it was in the 60’s and 70’s. Trust me. If you continue to attack cops and firefighters you will get exactly what you are asking for. We will leave and take private sector jobs…I will do fine because I have earned everything I have and will continue too. I fear for those of you that have no idea what awaits them when they need help from a cop or a firefighter.

By Originalthought (really?)

February 14, 2011 7:46 PM | Link to this

Don’t drive as if Ewe were less than human & Ewe won’t be treated as such Ms. L. I’m sure w/ that HUMAN attitude Ewe put on display, Ewe were Oh So Very compliant & respectful.HAH… so Ewe have a good paying PRIVATE sector job.. pay the fine & quit showing that fat a$$!!

By Shawn

February 14, 2011 7:42 PM | Link to this

Everyone keeps wanting to compaire the public sector jobs to the private sector. Here’s my take on it…Lets say you own a business and your success is dependent on the product you produce and sell. You have two groups of employees, one group works hard and earns there money…the other group sits in the break room and does no work. Both groups get paid. If you owned that business you would get rid of the lazy people sitting in the break room all day, right? So when you are the Governor and you are looking around at the people that get paid by the government, why would you attack the people that are working???? Why not cut entitlements such as free food, free transportation, free health care, free housing? Cut the millions being spent on people that don’t earn it!!! Stop messing with people that do earn it!!!

By charlie

February 14, 2011 7:40 PM | Link to this

Shawn you are too extorting us. The wages you make are outrageous, and we are going to change that we are the tax payers and enough is enough

By Laura

February 14, 2011 7:37 PM | Link to this

Steve see you gotta go getting mean and an attitude Oh were you the cop who pulled me over the other day and treated me like I was something less than a human being

By terri

February 14, 2011 7:33 PM | Link to this

Lets see MCSO best paid in all the land, work second or third shift, premium pay, paid uniforms, cash out your sick leave when you retire, go to court for 20 minutes get 4 hours of over time pay. it’s outrageous no one has bennies like the Ohio Sheriff’s and police officers, Fairborn starting pay for a police officer is right at $80,000.00 year, not bad for going to school for about 7 months. So you add benefits to that and your looking at $125,000.00 a year not including equipment

By Steve

February 14, 2011 7:30 PM | Link to this

Laura .. next time you need a cop call a crackhead instead see what that gets you.

By Shawn

February 14, 2011 7:27 PM | Link to this

Chris Littleton, I don’t know who you are but you don’t know what you are talking about. I am a cop. I know cops. I know firefighters. We are not extorting the taxpayers. I take offense that you would accuse me and my co-workers of this. Unions can be bad but you better get your facts correct before calling us criminals. We CANNOT strike. Police and Fire unions already have very little power. This is a money grab by a bunch of people jumping on a band wagon trying to attack honest working people. I ask people to get informed and ask their representatives to vote no on SB5. That bill will bring back the Police corruption of the 60’s and 70’s. Keep your police and fire fighters well trained, motivated, and competant. If the politicians have their way, the next time you need a cop or a firefighter it may be the same guy that delivered your pizza a couple months prior.

By The working poor

February 14, 2011 7:24 PM | Link to this

Why do private sectors think public service employees are being overpaid? Are they even considering the clerks who are being paid $9.00 an hour without a raise. Yet, insurance and cost of living continues to rise. Right now there is the poor, the working poor and the rich. The Middle class has left the building, exit at the right please.

By Laura

February 14, 2011 7:22 PM | Link to this

Tony the police officer, you need to put your big boy pants on find a job that you don’t have to work on Christmas and quit whinning

By Terry

February 14, 2011 7:21 PM | Link to this

The Governor made an inspiring speech at the Toledo Rotary Club, he is on the right track about doing away with prevailing wage, binding arbitration. Go work for someone else if you don’t like the change that is coming just like the rest of us in the private sector you are not entitled to your Government job ! Whats yellow and sleeps six ? A municipal public works truck ! Or blue if your in NC Public employees do not need a wedge ! Work for a living

By jimmie

February 14, 2011 7:18 PM | Link to this

@mike, @mister, @you don’t know - At least all you public employees still have jobs. You could be unemployed like a lot of folks. Don’t expect a lot of sympathy from those of us in the real world who pay your exorbitant wages and benefits. Want to trade jobs?

By Paula

February 14, 2011 7:18 PM | Link to this

Collective Bargining represents the lazy and unqualified government workers. If they were worth their salt, they wouldn’t care about being evauluated and promoted based on merit. They should save their dues and invest it in some education and alternative training.

By Cathy

February 14, 2011 7:15 PM | Link to this

The banking crises is what has brought us to this state of affairs. For example, the State Teacher’s Retirement system in Ohio was not only healthy and sound but regarded as an exemplary system until the moral failure of big banks — such as Lehman Brothers — which resulted in massive investment losses. Yet Governor Kasich chooses now to pursue a zealous campaign against public workers in this state. Police, firefighters, and teachers are now villains. If so many people are still so enamored with big bankers — and apparently they are as we now enjoy the misfortune of having one as our governor — perhaps they would be interested to know that Jamie Dimon stated in an interview with Fareed Zakaria that the state of California, which is facing a much bigger budget crises than we are, could solve the problem with a modest 1 percent increase in state income tax. No more taxes, you say? A state needs revenue. But here we are listening to the same old song — let’s cut taxes. And let’s especially cut taxes for businesses and corporations, and they will add jobs. Corporations are currently sitting on piles of money. Where are the jobs? How many jobs were lost during the Bush years? Trickle down doesn’t work. When are we going to learn this lesson?

By null

February 14, 2011 7:08 PM | Link to this

All I can say is decertify the unions in the public sector.

By scott

February 14, 2011 7:07 PM | Link to this

John “Wall Street” Kasich lied to us, and ripped our retirements off for millions, while taking his big bonus,and now he and the GOP go after the working class again. They’LL take care of the millionaires, but hard working Americans right to a fair wage is not on their agenda.

By Originalthought (really?)

February 14, 2011 7:03 PM | Link to this

Listen to Ewe all, all of Ewe, #1: never try to argue w/idiots, (just read the comments on this blog!). #2: Populists like Ewe treasonous, neighbor hating “patriots”,”christians” & $(u#baggers will never fess up to the REAL truth behind all the hate & vitriol… most of Ewe are classic, dyed in the wool RACISTS & SEPARATISTS, the result of generations of PROGRAMMING by the REAL big government… The United(HA!)States of CORPORATE America. Look Ewe, there is only ONE political party in this nightmare! One Party, TWO divisions(lol), all bought & paid for by EWE!!! Want to know what Ewe REALLY are… PRODUCTS, programmed since Ewe could watch THEIR machine, most of Ewe have NEVER had an original thought, so what makes Ewe tick……..PROGRAMMING..Ewe don’t know any better, but that does not exempt Ewe from the facts… DIVIDE & CONQUER!!, a strategy FAR FAR older than the TRUE CITIZENS who fought & DIED for all Ewe FAT, LAZY, SELF ABSORBED POPULISTS! Where do Ewe think child labor laws, overtime, insurance, 40 hr. week, on the job safety regulations…on & on & on came from…Thats right!!! Ewe geniuses have no problem ORGANIZING COLLECTIVELY & spewing vicious LIES & HATE about subjects Ewe have NO KNOWLEDGE about, seriously do any of Ewe haters read the comments Ewe post? Ewe talk about “TAKING OUR COUNTRY BACK”, really… from who…to whom? Ewe really don’t know whats REALLY happening @ all. So keep on spewing……..& I’ll keep on truckin’ Ewe knuckleheads. Ewe all deserve who & what Ewe get! When the $#!+ hits the streets….We’ll be waiting patiently for Ewe BALL WASHING BAGGERS

By scott

February 14, 2011 7:03 PM | Link to this

I guess I have finally learned my lesson. When I voted for Kasich and company I never dreamed the first ones they’d go after is us hard working middle class , many of whom elected them.

By scott

February 14, 2011 6:57 PM | Link to this

Republicans/tea party always attack us working middle class first. They , like W. bail out Wall Street, then help us by taking away our right to bargain for a raise, while “Wall Street Kasich” and his cohorts in Coloumbus vote for their own raise.

By dyt man

February 14, 2011 6:55 PM | Link to this

Union workers get a bad rap for the work they do.If it was not for the public workers we would have ice and snow covered roads, water main breaks running everywhere,our trash would be piled high. we have went without raises for 3 years and have had money taken from us with days with no pay and insurance raises. Issue 5 is a bad ideal

By Bill

February 14, 2011 6:51 PM | Link to this

No pity here public employees, get a copy of the Montgomery County Sheriff’s contract and see what they get, it is ridiculous and I know not one poster here get the same bennies from their job.

By BLACK

February 14, 2011 6:02 PM | Link to this

What a Shame, you get what you vote for! Ohio is just a backward place to live in.

By BLACK

February 14, 2011 6:02 PM | Link to this

What a Shame, you get what you vote for! Ohio is just a backward place to live in.

By Jeff

February 14, 2011 5:59 PM | Link to this

I have some bad news for the tea baggers. You cannot overide federal collective bargarining law. So, for all of your efforts it will be declared unconstitutional by the courts. have a nice day and get an education. Stop listening to that idioit Glenn Beck.

By herb

February 14, 2011 5:56 PM | Link to this

Government employees have been protected by Civil Service laws for a long time. Since 1983 they have had the double benefit of being unionized too. It’s just too much !

By you dont know

February 14, 2011 5:51 PM | Link to this

oh really: i have made the same concessions everyone else has made, and failed to mention we have lost people too. not much different from the private sector - oh and last time I looked, I’m a taxpayer too, pay just like you, and your “club” of slow growth/no growth I hope the next time you need help in the public sector, that you have a civil servant as nice and helpful as me, that way you can appreciate such jobs - just like i could appreciate yours. By the way, I have made less in yearly income, for the past 3 years, in the same job. But I’m there for you.

By Mister

February 14, 2011 5:51 PM | Link to this

This seems to be a very bad idea. I also am a public employee. I can remember having a discussion with a co-worker before the 2008 presedential election. My co-worker was anti-Obama, constantly speaking about how the republicans/tea party would help “save” us from the socialistic view of the left wing. The place we both worked at eventually closed. So I lost touch with that person. I wonder what they are thinking now because the very thing that person hung their political hat on was the collective bargaining power “we” would GAIN and not LOSE supporting the tea party idealology. I wonder what that person thinks now!

By Everyone forgets

February 14, 2011 5:47 PM | Link to this

The reason for government unions was because of the corruption. No one person could get a job, pay raise or promotion without being buddies with or related to a elected official or the administrator/director. We had entire local governments composed of relatives. Supervisors who made double the workers. It is easy to see why elected officials want to see thing back to this ancient way of running things. It is how they run their cabinets. The sheep are being led. So sad….

By dlgg

February 14, 2011 5:45 PM | Link to this

There are good examples of unions and bargaining, just as there are bad examples. In the federal realm, union negotiations are quite limited and, in most cases, the union is there to protect the problem employee or to provide dental insurance. But, the public service employees should have bargaining rights; Provided that they keep their demands within reason. There are probably also good examples of Teabaggers and bad examples of Teabaggers. The Teabag groups which choose not to spread hate are probably good for the democratic process. The Teabaggers who are basically lost evangelicals or rednecks with “Lets Make a Deal” costumes are probably on the bad side.

By mike

February 14, 2011 5:44 PM | Link to this

One thing everybody needs to remember. If this bill passes, as a fire fighter, I will lose roughly 1600.00 oper month out of my pay. I cant afford my house anymore!

By msorah

February 14, 2011 5:35 PM | Link to this

Same Old Story. Vote Rich. Live Poor.

By !!!!!

February 14, 2011 5:26 PM | Link to this

Why is this the focus of the legislaure,..turning back the clock on workers rights. Why aren’t they doing something to increase revenue collection by CREATING JOBS!! or Fixing the Economic environment!! OH reps start out at $58K. Maybe they should start earning those $$$ by making prudent decisions to improve the lives of Ohioans. Has collective bargaining really been the pressing issue for the flood of red ink in Ohio Budget? This just shows that these legislators don’t get it. They continue to make ideology driven decisions that serve their own arrogant egos but not the good of Ohioans.

By Craig

February 14, 2011 5:09 PM | Link to this

As a former Daytonian and lover of all things Ohio, it saddens me to report that when my wife finishes school for educational leadership, hoping to be a principal, Ohio is NOT one of the states we will be looking to relocate to. It is precisely because of policies like this that we’ll look someplace else. A shame, we love Ohio, but not enough to risk a career in the educational field there.

By tiredofit.

February 14, 2011 5:07 PM | Link to this

another reason never to vote republican or for teabaggers. as a union member we find ourselves in another group of people republicans and teabaggers dont like!

By scoobydo

February 14, 2011 4:39 PM | Link to this

Why in collective bargain or any union negotiations is it the Unions fault. Both side come to an agreement, that mean if you are going to point fingers, you need to be pointing in BOTH directions. This conservative union hating is just one more in a line of hating the working class, hating American people. I feel sorry for all of you that now want your Wall street governors vote back, you all voted for the monster, now you have to live with it.

By bub

February 14, 2011 4:33 PM | Link to this

Leslie… that’s just simply not true. Unions don’t protect “lousy” teachers from losing their jobs. Schools do a good job at replacing teachers. When you take away the the incentive to enter the teaching field, you will see diminished quality of teachers. Do the same for firefighters, EMT’s, Police… and see what you get!! Teacher’s go through a lot of hurdles before they can even apply for a job, and the first year is probationary. After that, if they are hired, they must complete a Master’s Degree within 5 years in order to maintain certification. Just getting through the undergrad program is an achievement—there are many “weed out” hurdles, and it takes a HUGE commitment. I’d suggest you visit some schools and sit in on some classes yourself, and identify the horrible teachers. Sure, there are bad apples here and there, but on the whole, your theory that teachers are doing a poor job is just fallacy. YOU try doing that job!!

By Tony

February 14, 2011 4:30 PM | Link to this

As a police officer, I have been home for Christmas twice in the last decade. If I want a weekend off, I have to take vacation time. What helps take the sting out of depriving my kids time other parents get to spend with their kids? My benefits. Take that away and I have to start wondering if what I put up with is worth it.

By ohiodale

February 14, 2011 4:12 PM | Link to this

Chad - you have to be a kid or very ignorant. Social security and medicade are payroll taxes not sales taxes. You pay into social security and medicade through your paycheck. I don’t think union workers are over paid but I do think we need to cut back on government jobs through laying off workers just as the private sector does. We should run the government like any other business. Tax revenues are down so lay off workers. Perfect chance to clean house and get rid of bad workers. As far as the collective bargining goes, get rid of it. The only people for this are the union government workers.

By steve

February 14, 2011 4:08 PM | Link to this

you don’t hear anybody talking about our legislators taking pay cuts.the rich get richer and the poor get alot poorer. that’s what wrong with society today.legislators do a 4 year term at $100,000 a year and get a 30 year pension what wrong with this picture. everybody want to thrash on the little man. $20.00 an hour is hardly over paid to get urine, get stuck with needle and break up fights everyday. and then go home and tell your family you contacted a something

By Leslie

February 14, 2011 3:48 PM | Link to this

bub, we have lousy teachers now and we can’t get rid of them and guess what we have unions. So your argument that we will have lousy teachers without unions doesn’t hold up to the facts. Unions do nothing to ensure that there members are quality teachers, unions just ensure they have warm bodies making money for the union goons.

By The money isn't there

February 14, 2011 3:47 PM | Link to this

I am a public employee and have had no raise in over 2 years, had unpaid furloughs and lost hours. But I realize where the money comes from - those out there working in the private sector struggling for their own paycheck. I cannot imagine telling the taxpayers to pay me more money when the economy is so bad. I am not so selfish to put myself ahead of those who pay their taxes to pay me. I work for them! Thank you taxpayers for what you can pay and let’s hope for a better economy so that we all can live a little better.

By bub

February 14, 2011 3:44 PM | Link to this

It’s ironic to me that this group (Tea *) claims to be fighting for smaller government, and now they are supporting the removal of the only leverage that public employees have—giving the government more power, particularly at the state level. You’ll see more strikes, walk-outs, and conflicts because of this. I’m also not sure the public realizes that teachers are required to have a Master’s Degree within 5 years of beginning teaching. Teacher quality WILL go down, fewer will be willing to sacrifice for YOUR children. Very short-sighted view here. I hope the public employees FIGHT this. This legislation will no nothing but give more power to your government—period.

By Oh, really?

February 14, 2011 3:32 PM | Link to this

you don’t know, The glory days of the local public service sector are over. Privare sector income growth has flatlinned relative to the public over the last 20 years. Taxpayers are tapped out. It’s not much fun living in a no growth/ slow growth region. Welcome to the club.

By Chad

February 14, 2011 3:27 PM | Link to this

Those folk thinking the public workers are getting what they got or the UAW or the IUE or SEIU get in pay and privileges need to remember the social security checks and their Medicaid comes from public employees buying services and goods. Most of them will never get social security themselves, but they paid for it all their lives buying stuff and paying taxes. We need to lobby for tax refunds for the social security we paid every time we bought something.

By you don't know

February 14, 2011 3:16 PM | Link to this

i’m in a union. i work for the public and do a good job. it has been two years since I have had any kind of raise. My insurance has doubled in that time. I never get a bonus and rarely get overtime. Last year I was forced to take four days without pay to help with budgeting. This year I am being forced to take a full week off without pay. How’s that sound? Have I conceded enough already? You think my union is taking advantage of taxpayers? Or perhaps it is me that is being taken advantage of?