By Another Happy Homeschooler

March 17, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

Laura, Yes, what I did say was ‘technically’ incorrect. Perhaps I should have elaborated (for your benefit)that if you are NOT using a liscensed teacher to review your portfolio, that the person must be approved of by the school district. This is the route I chose last year. Either way, there is in fact oversight in the state of Ohio. On the abuse reporting…I was not wrong. There are a LOT of kids, even nowadays, that go unreported. And the ones that are reported aren’t neccessarily abuse cases…which sounds a lot like what could have been what happened in your case. I am not for crying ‘abuse’ at every sight of a bruise on a child or a child being upset with their parents’ discipline. Children will be children and some teachers wish to cry ‘abuse’ every time they see or hear something they don’t like personally. If you reported abuse that often, then I’d have to say you were one of those kinds of teachers. As a parent, yes, I would get pretty ticked off if someone accused me of something I wasn’t doing just because a teacher wanted to jump to conclusions without evidence of such behavior. That is where the ‘system’ has gone wrong. Teachers aren’t qualified to say abuse is or isn’t happening. Yes, they can report but it is all subject to their own viewpoint and nothing concrete. A lot of teachers seem to think they are qualified for EVERYTHING, when they are not.

By Laura

March 14, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this

Another Happy Homeschooler: At least one part of your explanation is incorrect. When you say the portfolio has to be “reviewed by someone approved by the district”, that is not true. Any teacher holding a license can sign off on the portfolio. It doesn’t matter what the teacher’s experience or certification is. No one checked to see if my license was current or what the certification was. I also take exception with your comment that teachers don’t report abuse. Over the nearly 30 years I have taught I have lost count of the times I have made abuse reports. I have been threatened by parents after reporting and had to be escorted in and out of school following a report. Do not make the incorrect assumption that because something happened or didn’t happen many years ago that things have not improved.

By Another happy homeschooler

March 14, 2008 1:11 AM | Link to this

Null and OldProf, in response to your comments that all homeschoolers should be tested like public school students…they are! Here in OH, homeschoolers have to show that they did a satisfactory job of schooling each and every year they homeschool. They must either submit their child(ren) to standardized testing (just like in PUBLIC schools!), have a portfolio review (by someone approved by the school district!), or another option approved of by the superintendant of that district! If they fail, they face remediation and the reinsertion of their child back into public schools! There IS in fact oversight of OH homeschoolers! Abuse is rampant in PUBLIC education…I knew many friends that were abused while growing up in the public schools here in OH…yet the schools did nothing. You think more restrictions on homeschoolers will weed out the possible few that are abusing their kids? (and believe me..there are less in homeschooling than public schools)We have laws to report abuse to CPS in this state that have nothing to do with public schools. Yes, teachers are expected to report abuse, but do they…when it’s really needed? No. If so many homeschoolers were abusing their children, there certainly would be reports from neighbors, doctors,other family members, people in the public that see these kids when they are out shopping with their families! You are wanting a punishment for all that is only needed for a few. Maybe CPS should do a better job in the first place and you wouldn’t be so worried about homeschoolers. The fact is, Ohio’s (and many other state’s) public schools are substandard. Look at their test scores on their state’s DOE sites! These ‘teachers’ may have degrees but they are not doing a good job. Too many public schools have terrible scores and failing students. People like you claim “they need more funding is all”, yet we have poured millions upon millions of tax dollars/grants,etc into them and nothing has changed. MANY students fall through THEIR system’s cracks! We homeschoolers are more than capable of teaching our few children and keeping track of what they are or are not learning than a teacher with a ‘horde’ of students to try and follow. Many of which they don’t have the time to help nor WANT to take the time to help. There are plenty of statistics of how homeschoolers have outscored public/private school students! Also, statistics showing that there is no correlation between having or not having a teaching degree and higher test scores in homeschooling! There are NO statistics showing a higher amount of abuse among homeschoolers than public/private schoolers! You are just stating the few cases you have seen publicized in newspapers in the country…a handful out of the 2-3 MILLION of homeschoolers in the USA today! You have no leg to stand on. Neither of you. If you’d like to read more on homeschool success, please go to http://boysbehavior.thehomeschoolorganizer.com and click on ‘the Academic Version of Homeschool Outcomes from the article in Old Schoolhouse Magazine’ that is found toward the bottom of the home page. Also, you can check out the other following sites http://www.nheri.org/ or http://nche.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp or http://nche.hslda.org/docs/study/comp2001/default.asp. There are many others, but those are a few to get you guys started.

By Oldprof

March 11, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

Hi Happy. Look, when I say “more scrutiny” I do NOT mean more laws necessarily. “Scrutiny” means “keeping an eye on.” That’s the key to enforcement, not a new level of legislation. Now, other states (notably Utah and Nevada) probably need new regulations, but we’re not blogging there. As far as Ohio is concerned, I want the authorities to find the kids whose home”schooling” involves running unsupervised through the neighborhood each day, and hold those parents to the same standards that you (and those other successful homeschoolers I’ve known) meet regularly. I do, however, continue to have a quibble with your reading skills: in addition to misinterpreting “scrutiny” you completely ignored my original statement “the majority of home-schoolers are competent”. There’s no need to interpret tone from that statement, it’s a flat endorsement.

By Happy Homeschooler

March 10, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this

I will consolidate and shorten to ask the very basic things that I have been trying to get out of all that say that we need more regulations. How do you see this helping catch people that aren’t doing the job now? Do you think they would follow the new rules or would we still be dealing with a very basic truancy issue with them? Can you name any study that shows that more regulations = higher test scores OR lower abuse? What, exactly, is not working with Ohio’s current rules? Please show some true evidence (numbers) that will show how the current system is not working.

By Concerned Mom of 3

March 10, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this

This is not an attack on homeschooling. From what I can tell, most people reading this blog agree that homeschooling is the right option for many families. And we believe the option to homeschool should be available for people who are committed to doing it. We would all be sticking our heads in the sand if we didn’t realize that some people choose to homeschool their children for the wrong reasons. Reporting them to the truancy officer is not enough of a consequence. Too much is at stake. It is too easy for kids to slip through the cracks of the system. I have seen one case where a student was unsuccessfully homeschooled for a year- and yes the family was reported for truancy. The young lady came back to the public school, but she was very, very far behind her peers. Her parents have done her a disservice. There are many parents who are clearly not qualified to homeschool their children. Ask any social worker. I stand behind my previous comment that parents who choose to homeschool their children should have some qualifications. The statement is not intended to penalize the the parents who are committed to doing the job right. But to hold everyone accountable for the education that should be happening. It isn’t about you… It is about the ones who are being neglected by their parents.

By Happy Homeschooler

March 10, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

MC- I’m afraid there is something you don’t understand- when there is talk of a need to create harsher homeschool regulations, it affects ALL homeschoolers. Following your logic, homeschooling isn’t about YOU, so maybe it’d be best if you minded your own business. We have abuse laws, and those should suffice in abuse cases. Don’t punish the many in an attempt to find the few. If those families really did pull out of PS to avoid prying eyes, then do you really think they would follow more HS regulations? If you know that these people are, in fact, abusing their children then they should be reported. Enforce the laws we have and leave those of us doing our jobs alone.

By null

March 10, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

Happy Homeschooler, are you one of the gguilty ones? You sure are blowing your horn a lot if you aren’t. The bottom line is that unfortunately, not all parents have their children’s best interest at heart and home schooling is one way to keep the school districts from finding out what is really going on. Don’t believe me? Do my job for one month to see what really happens to children in some homes.

By MC

March 10, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

All of you caught up in the issue of home schooling covering up abuse…If it ain’t you, stop worrying about it and relax, we don’t want to hear about the good job you are doing. Bottom line, not all by any means, but several families that I am personally aware of have chosen to remove their children from school when there were questionable actions being investigated by CSB in order to avoid the “prying eyes” of the school district that reported the abuse to begin with. So again, if it ain’t you, mind your own business and go blow your horn somewhere else.

By Happy Homeschooler

March 10, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this

I suppose this statement- The downside is that many parents abuse homeschooling to hide their child abuse, to augment their racism, or to cement their radical religious viewpoints. shouldn’t have led us to think that you are saying that many homeschoolers are abusing their children? Maybe it’s just because ‘tone’ is so hard to get when you are just reading things off of the net, but it seems to me that you are worried about homeschoolers abusing their children. The LDS that you mention could be abusive based on their religious views, so maybe we should put out laws protecting children from religion? And, who gets to decide what a ‘radical religious viewpoint’ is? Wouldn’t that opinion vary for many? I may be under the belief that a religion is ‘radical’ if it believes in killing others that have a different view, while you may think that my belief that Jesus is the Son of God is radical enough to warrant suspicion. The thing is, we do have laws that are working fine in Ohio. I send in a letter with my children’s names and ages, and sign saying that I will be teaching all of the same subjects as the public school. At the end of the year I test my children and they outscore the public schooled children by leaps and bounds. The school gets a copy of this test and can clearly see that our ‘program’ works. Yes, I know you say that you will give me ‘the benefit of the doubt’, but I do not believe that we should try to make up even more laws that restrict the many good homeschoolers to try to catch a few bad ones. What happened to ‘innocent until proven guilty’? We simply need the laws we do have enforced. If parents are not turning in the correct forms, then yes, by all means, contact the truancy office. Those children are not homeschooled, they are truant. To try to put this into perspective, let’s say that statistically speaking, teen boys are more likely to be caught speeding and driving without seatbelts. Do we then go and make up more laws to try to catch the teen boys that speed, or do we just try to get better enforcement of what we already have? We have issues here in Ohio with school districts that try to overstep their bounds in regards to homeschoolers in their area. I myself had an issue with my local school a month or so ago in which I had to show the school a copy of the law and highlight the portion that showed them that they did not have the authority that they think they have. Maybe a good way to enforce current laws in a more productive way would be to ensure that the local schools know the law to begin with? Making more laws will just add to the headaches, cost more money and confuse an already confused board of education. One more question- can you show any proof (study) that shows that states with higher regulations have homeschoolers that perform better? Or have lower cases of abuse by people ‘claiming’ to homeschool?

By Oldprof

March 10, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this

In the first place, I am dismayed that anyone thought I was saying that most homeschoolers are trying to hide abuse or neglect. Can’t you people READ? But if you really want documentation of abuse of the system to cover up abuse, just look up the copious reporting on the radical NLDS families in west Utah who homeschool, and who have been convicted of abuse. Overall, I believe that the majority of homeschoolers are doing it for legit reasons and are doing it at least somewhat competently. Thing is, we have NO data even on how many children are homeschooled—much less any consistent data on whether the homeschooling is being done according to any standard. Happy Homeschooler, I extend to you the benefit of the doubt, in all likelihood you are like other homeschoolers I’ve known who do a decent job of it—but you and the others need much more scrutiny from our elected officials, not because you’re the problem, but to catch the ones who are. Sure, the California decision is a little draconian—will you step up and propose ways to clean up abuses of your own system in response???

By Laura

March 9, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

Most, but not all, parents do know what is best for their children. For those who don’t fall into that catagory, there should be some system to minimally qualify a parent as a teacher, and a better form of assessment. I have a relative who homeschools for just the reason Concerned Mom mentioned. She got mad at the school because she didn’t agree with their special ed evaluation of her children. In this case, she wanted fully self-contained classes provided and the district wanted to go with least restrictive. My personal opinion was the children needed more services than the district was providing, but they weren’t and aren’t getting them from their parents. Their mother barely squeaked through high school, before testing was required. I doubt she would have passed the OGT. She asked me to review their portfolio and sign off on it. I tried to get out of it, but, in the interest of family harmony, gave in and reluctantly signed off. I have no idea what her goals for the year were, and I can tell you, that what was in the portfolio would never have passed in the public schools for that grade level.

By Homeschool Dad

March 9, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

Old Prof, I think Happy Homeschooler is right in asking you to cite the studies you are quoting. It is really just so cliche` the way opponents of homeschooling play the abuse card. The idea that kids must be kept in public schools to prevent them from abuse by crazed, racist parents is just so ridiculous it would be scarcely worth comment if it weren’t such a dangerous idea. Let me ask you a question, sir. How many children have been abused in the public schools over the past years? It seems like we hear constantly about teachers engaging in sex with students and other forms of abuse. Do you not consider coaches who choke their players abusive? This is not even taking into account the rise in school shootings since Columbine. I really don’t think our children are safer in the public schools. Actually, I believe the truth is quite the opposite. But then I believe in God and in loving two-parent homes. What do you believe in, Old Prof?

By Happy Homeschooler

March 9, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

I feel that he is being an activist judge because of the wording. Up until now, many homeschoolers in CA filed simple piece of paper that established themselves as private schools. Now the judge says that it is not okay and that parents have to have credentials, but many private schools hire teachers that do no have degrees. Most of the homeschoolers that I talk to from CA like the way it has always been (private school option) and the state board of education has been fine with it.

By Bill

March 9, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

Homeschooling is not always an option for some families. There are occasions, especially if a child is expelled from public school for a year, when parents must take personal charge of the educational responsibility for their child. A district that is expelling a child, is in a sense saying we will no longer provide an education to this child, you are on your own. Some districts provide alternative education settings, but not ours, there was no alternative program voiced by the district. So what then, does a parent just give up; not this one. We found that our child is thriving in a homeschool program, it is purchased each year and is an accredited program through another states Dept of Education. We ask numerous times each year if our child wishes to return to the public system, the answer to date has always been no. Why should I let the district in, if they wanted my child out (only for the year of expulsion). Per state administrative code, we submit a letter of intent and an end of year assessment showing our child is progressing satisfactorily. The local school district gave up on my child, I did not. I have taken the responsibility for my child�s education to the nth degree, for over four years now.

By Mary

March 9, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this

I wonder if California public schools have mandated gifted educational services. Another reason many parents resort to homeschooling is the schools do not provide appropriate services, programs and challenges for a gifted child. Many of their parents are better educated than many of the teachers. I agree with Rick that the law sounds totalitarian. The judge choose to enforce a bad law. Does that make him or her an activist judge? Change the law. Education should not be compulsory when it fails students in so many ways.

By Happy Homeschooler

March 8, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

OldProf- Please cite studies proving that homeschoolers are more likely to abuse. Also, the government scrutiny of public schools has a great deal to do with the fact that they receive our tax dollars. Private schools do not have to jump through hoops and homeschoolers shouldn’t have to either. I receive nothing to homeschool; I do it because it is best for my children. If your tax dollars were being sent to me, I would expect to have to answer to you, proving how well I do. That is not the case. Also, homeschoolers don’t need credentials because the entire methods for teaching 1-on-1 are so different from classroom teaching. I know- I have done both. The things I learned in college have not yet come into play with my kids (except for the really cool creative arts classes- my kids love the projects that we pick out from my old notebooks to do). I went over atoms and the periodic table with my 3rd grader the other day, and we never touched that in college. I learned about that in high school. I could have chosen to not go to college and will still have just as much success with teaching my children at home.

By Happy Homeschooler

March 8, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

We have several options here in Ohio for assesment- we can choose to test our children, have a portfolio assesment done, or choose another method (as long as it is acceptable to the super in our district). I think that this ruling will have to be struck down or legislation will be passed allowing for homeschooling. We should be able to choose how to educate our children- it’s our right as parents. California seems to have more than it’s share of activist judges that decide to legislate from the bench. As far as Ohio and it’s regulations, I think we have a fine balance. I have to submit a notice of intent every year, along with proof of whichever assesment option I have chosen. The school doesn’t need any more than that- it’s none of their business.

By Oldprof

March 8, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

A sad development; I agree that the majority of home-schoolers are competent and that the results in those cases are equitable. The downside is that many parents abuse homeschooling to hide their child abuse, to augment their racism, or to cement their radical religious viewpoints. The solution ought to be more scrutiny of homeschoolers—sorry to say, since government scrutiny isn’t always sanguine or competent either. But we don’t hesitate to call for increased government scrutiny of public schools—even back in the days when they worked well more often than not.

By Concerned Mom of 3

March 8, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

I have seen several very successful home school students… It all depends on who the parent is and what their level of education is. Parents who pull their kids out of public/private school “in a huff” are not making the decision to home school for the right reasons. Home schooling can work for some families, but certainly not all. I would like to see some tighter controls on parents who do home school. Especially with regard to monitoring the parents who are not living up to their end of the bargain. Teachers have to work hard to obtain and maintain their credentials. Home school parents should have to have some competency before being allowed to do it- and they should complete continuing education- just like regular teachers do. The parents who decide to home school for the right reasons will be fine. The ones who aren’t holding up their end of the bargain should have some consequnces. (Really, their kids are the ones who suffer the consequences when the home school program is not followed up on.) Home school programs should be regulated in order to prevent students from falling through the cracks.

By null

March 8, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

PARENTS WHO WANT TO HOME SCHOOL SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO. THE CHILDREN SHOULD BE TESTED THE SAME AS PUBLIC SCHOOL TO BE SURE THEY ARE NOT LEFT BEHIND.

By Rick

March 8, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

A state that forbids homeschooling has become a totalitarian state; its government should be replaced.

By Mary

March 8, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this

I don’t think the ruling will stand, and the law will probably be struck down - especially since there are so many more problems and students in the public schools with certified teachers.